Cynthia's career didn't turn out quite as planned. Eyes on the stage with the ambition to be a ballerina, Cynthia has had a wild ride that has taken her through interesting career shifts from investment banking, to the telecommunications industry and now to her position as the CEO, ANZ of Zip Co. Hear Cynthia’s story on episode 6 of Shares Not Shoes.
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Cynthia Scott
You have to reframe how you think about the word no. If you think about the word no as actually an incredible opportunity to open a door so that you can ask why, then actually you might look for the no.
Camilla Love
Welcome, everyone, back to another episode of Shares Not Shoes, an insider's guide to careers in finance. I'm your host, Camilla Lowe, founder of F3, Future F females in Finance. Shares Not Shoes is a podcast whereby I interview some of my favourite people all with one thing in common. They work in finance. We lift the lid on who they are, how they came into a career in finance, and arm you with some knowledge about why a career in finance could be a good fit for you. I will promise that all my guests will share some amazing personal stories. We'll be open and honest and will inspire you.
Camilla Love
So….Let's go.
Camilla Love
We have another amazing episode today for Shares Not Shoes. And in our CEO series, we are definitely moving on to a high with today's special guest. Today, I have the pleasure of chatting with a managing director that I've known for not very long, but I have admired from afar for a very long time. She cut her teeth in investment banking, going on to be the CEO of Barclays here in Australia. She then spearheaded strategic finance at Telstra and ran their overseas operations and has more recently become the Managing Director of Australia and New Zealand at Zip. Welcome to Shares Not Shoe's, Cynthia Scott.
Cynthia Scott
Thank you, Camilla. It's great to be here. Thanks for.
Camilla Love
Having me. I'm glad that you said yes. I'm very glad that you said yes. I thought it was going to be a bit of a risk for me to ask, but I tell you what, I'm super excited to get into the nuts and bolts of your career and what you've learned and get some great stories from you today. So maybe we can start and kick off with tell me a little bit about what you do and a little bit about you and who you are.
Cynthia Scott
Thank you. No, it's great to be here. Well, look, as you said, I'm the Managing Director for Zip in Australia and New Zealand, and I've been in that role for about a year. And for me, being part of Zip is fantastic because it combines financial services, which is something I've had quite a bit of experience in, but also technology and disruption. And so over my career, as you said, I spent nearly 20 years or just over 20 years, actually, in investment banking in a number of different companies doing different roles. And then had a complete career change going into telstra, where I was not a subject matter expert at all. And that was incredibly challenging and invigorating. And then I spent a couple of years at centre group in retail and real estate and then joined zip, as I say, a year ago. So I've got responsibility for all of our operations in Australia and New Zealand. So it's about 550 people. So it's a good sized business and it's a really exciting thing to be doing.
Camilla Love
Great. And I love the nexus of finance and technology because particularly this day and age, the customer and the consumer is looking for so much more from financial services. And technology is just an enabler of that. And we see it in other areas of our lives. And I love the fact that you already highlighted that nexus. So tell us a little bit about why you chose Zip, really?
Cynthia Scott
Yeah. It's a good question because I've made some interesting career shifts through the, frankly, more than 30 years now that I've been working. And often people will say to me, Why did you do that? Why did you leave a role as a CEO of Barclays and go and take a role in a telecommunications company two levels down from the CEO? And similarly, people would say to me, Well, why did you take the role at Zip? Because all the roles I have done up until this point, arguably, were in much bigger, more mature, stable businesses. However, for me, a little bit as you said, what really interests me is that intersection of technology and customer experience. And doing that in a financial services setting for me was just frankly too good to refuse because Zip's a business where... I mean, it's a product and technology company. The actual product, of course, is a financial product. But actually what the business is all about is helping people live their best lives or change ideally changing people's lives. One of the great examples I use about how our customers use Zip that I love, and it's incredibly not well known.
Cynthia Scott
Most people think about Zip as a buy now, pay later, and they think about Zip as a product that's used for short term purchases. We definitely have that in our product suite. But actually the bulk of our customers and the bulk of our products are used for longer term, more thoughtful purchasing for want of a better term. And so the example I love to use is that more babies are born in Australia because of zip. That is awesome. Most people go, What do you mean? Why? And I say, Well, we are the largest financer of IVF. That's one Australia. So if you're going through the IVF process, it's a really expensive process, and not every individual and couple can afford to pay for that outright. So we work with all the key IVF providers to enable people to go through the IVF process and then have the funding and the credit to pay that off over a period of time. And so I love that example because for me, it brings home why I like being in organisations like zip. And I think as we talk about the different things that I've done over my career, there's definitely a theme of innovation and change.
Cynthia Scott
But there's also, I hope, a theme of community and having an impact on individuals and consumers. And so that's why I'm really enjoying the zip role.
Camilla Love
And think about it, reflecting on that story about IVF and the partnership with zip, I think about the joy that comes to lives with that service.
Cynthia Scott
Yeah, absolutely. And that's just one example. The other areas where our business is really strong is things like people who want to put solar on their roofs. Or one of my one of my other favourite examples, because I will confess, I'm a bit of an animal tragic. I've got cats and dogs in my house, so I'm a bit of a bleeding heart when it comes to rescuing animals. But there's a great example, a great customer example that we talk about at Zip, where we have a customer who has quite a few cats and she likes to buy premium cat food for her cats, but she can't actually afford to buy it each week because it's more expensive. And so she buys it in bulk. And to buy in bulk, she needs to use her Zip account so that she can make the one-off payment to buy the cat food and then she pays it back over a period of weeks. That's letting her live her best life. Totally.
Camilla Love
And the cat's best life.
Cynthia Scott
And the cat's best life. So she wants to do the right thing. And so that's what I like, where I really get that satisfaction from the role that I've got now at Zip. And I've had other roles through the course of my career, whether it's working at Telstra Health in the digital health business, or one of the great roles that I had when I was at Telstra was being involved in the build of the third mobile network in the Philippines, a country that just desperately needed another mobile network. So I do tend to gravitate towards roles and opportunities and just being involved in things where you really will have an impact. Absolutely. That's what I'm drawn to.
Camilla Love
And I think we talk about it a lot in She's not just she is about the purpose of financial services. So I think that a lot of that gets lost in a lot of myth conceptions.
Cynthia Scott
Out there.
Camilla Love
About what financial services entails, particularly as a career. But there is so much purpose in it. And whether that be financing the transition to renewable energy, whether that be rolling out the Philippines' telco network, I mean, there is so much purpose in that stuff.
Cynthia Scott
Well, I mean, there's purpose in big things like infrastructure. So I'm still involved very much in infrastructure and infrastructure financing through a non executive role I have on the board of UD group. But you're right. I'm there because of my finance knowledge. And anywhere where there's either a lot of capital or a need for capital, finance is at the heart of that. I don't think that there's an example. I think about different companies. I think about not for profits countries, communities. Finance is a core part of everything, really. And that's why for me, having a finance background has... Clearly, I had the first 20 years very much in debt and capital markets and finance. So that's really my technical skill set. But having a familiarity with finance and being comfortable talking about the key aspects of finance across everything from consumers to small business, large businesses, governments as I've done, it's absolutely a foundation that you can then take your career wherever you want. And did you.
Camilla Love
Always know you wanted to be in finance?
Cynthia Scott
No, not at all. Not at all. Is that the right answer? Maybe I should say, oh, I woke up. I was born to be a banker. No, quite the opposite. So if I could just digress for a minute. I was going to be a ballerina. Oh, were you? So I left school at 15 to train as a professional ballerina. Wow. And so no, I definitely did not think I was going to have a career in finance. I did not think I was going to have a corporate career at all. I was one of those little girls who, from the age of three, did ballet and then just became completely obsessed that that was what I was going to do with my life. So I dropped out of school after year 10 and trained as a ballerina. And then I have a back injury that I got as a result of ballet. And so I stopped dancing when I was 18. So I was still really young. But I didn't have the high school certificate, so I hadn't completed school. So then I went to tech. And I did the HSC as a mature age student at 18, and then went to uni.
Cynthia Scott
And look, I think people liked or would like to hear that I was really strategic in thinking about going into finance or going into commerce, but I was not. Honestly, I have an incredibly talented and capable older sister, and she did an arts degree. And so when I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life, because as I said, I wanted to be a ballerina, the advice that everybody gave me was, Well, if you don't know what you want to do with your life, you should either do commerce or art. And like a good second sister, younger.
Camilla Love
Sister, yours, the other sister. You chose the.
Cynthia Scott
Other one. My sister was doing art. So I said, There's no way I'm doing that. I'm going to do commerce. And then again, I'd love to say that as soon as I started my commerce degree, I was just smitten with finance. And this is actually quite an ironic story now, given what's happened in the last 30 years. But I actually started my commerce degree as a marketing major. And in my first year, I was told that if you pursue a career in marketing, you have to do a lot of public speaking. And I was so frightened by the idea of public speaking that I changed my major from marketing to finance in first year.
Camilla Love
Even though you were happy to stand on a stage in a two two in.
Cynthia Scott
Front of thousands of people. It's different, Camilla, you don't speak when you're dancing. But you speak in different ways. You do. So yes, I was a performer, but I just didn't like the idea of public speaking. And so I changed my degree, but I but to be fair, in first year, I really did gravitate more towards the finance subjects. And I was at University of New South Wales, and they introduced a new degree, which was a double major in finance and Japanese studies. And I was fascinated by Japan. And so I was able to actually do honors in both. And so I did the language, Japanese economic history, and Japanese business studies. And I think that also, in combination with finance, gave me a real curiosity about Asia. And so a lot of my subsequent career, I lived in Hong Kong for a number of years. And over the course of my career, I've had responsibility for businesses in Asia, and I've traveled extensively. And I think a big part of that curiosity came from having completed the degree with the Japanese angle?
Camilla Love
Yeah. Not that you know this, but I also did.
Cynthia Scott
Asian.
Camilla Love
Studies as my major in my arts, and I did also commerce. So I.
Cynthia Scott
Got the two.
Camilla Love
Sisters merged together.
Camilla Love
But I did also Japanese politics, Japanese history as well. So it gives you so much respect for culture, history, and all the different politics associated with it. Each country within Asia is very different to the next. And a lot of people, particularly put them all together and say, That's Asia. But actually, they're very, very different. And there's so much. It's so interesting in that segment.
Cynthia Scott
Yeah, very much so. So when I was at Barclays and I took the role as the Asia Pacific Head of Capital Markets, and I was moving to Hong Kong, I was really interested as a senior female, I was a managing director at that point, I was really interested in how I would be perceived as a senior woman operating. I had teams in five countries. We operated in 15 countries. I was fascinated about how would our clients in Japan and Korea and Vietnam and Indonesia and Thailand, how would they feel working came with me as a senior female? I actually spoke to each of the country heads at the time and I just asked them, Is there anything I need to be aware of? Are there certain sensitivities? Are there certain ways I should conduct myself in terms of cultural expectations.
Camilla Love
The two big.
Cynthia Scott
Things in terms of feedback that I got, in case anyone listening finds themselves in a similar situation, I suspect it's probably still culturally similar. The first one was that particularly in Japan and Korea back then, maybe this is a little different now, but back then, senior male clients or senior male executives were not particularly comfortable doing heavy price negotiations with women. What we agreed was in certain countries when we were at the pointy end of negotiations, I would let my colleagues complete the negotiation, even though if I was the more senior person in the room, it would be natural for me to do it, rather than make our clients uncomfortable. It was just easier. I was very happy to defer to them to complete the negotiation. The other cultural nuance I learned that I learned the hard way was in Thailand. I barrel into a meeting in Thailand and shoved out my hand and said, Hi, I'm Cynthia. T hey looked really uncomfortable, but they shook my hand. I was like, What's going on? T hen I realized that generally, women don't shake hands. They bow. You just do a little bow when you greet one another.
Cynthia Scott
Again, I just adopted that cultural behavior because that's how people behave in Thailand, and I was very comfortable to do that.
Camilla Love
What did you learn? When you're going around and talking to the senior people within your teams within Asia, and they told you one thing, what else did you learn on the ground there that you definitely would not have learned I'll.
Cynthia Scott
Tell you the single biggest lesson I learned. Just to give you some context, Camilla, I had been working probably 12, 15 years at the point at which I went to Hong Kong. My leadership and management capabilities had been built up in Australia with Australian teams. I've been in Guy Ball businesses, but largely they were Australians in Australian teams. I thought I'll just pack my little management and leadership tools into my great hand bag and I'll go to Asia and I'll just unpack them and I'll use them there. And I'll give you an example. When I landed in Hong Kong, I was in a dealing room. I had my team in the dealing room. And two really interesting things happened that made me realise that my management and leadership capabilities didn't automatically transfer. My style is very authentic and open and I want to get on well with the team and I want to get to know the teams as individuals. So I landed in Hong Kong and the first thing I said to the team was, Wow, there's so much fabulous diversity in this team. Why don't we have a dinner once a month and we'll all just get together and we can go to a different restaurant and why that'd be great.
Cynthia Scott
And they're all looking at me like.
Camilla Love
And.
Cynthia Scott
I kept suggesting this for seemingly a couple of months. And the dinners and anything social was never forthcoming. And I began to realise that they were doing the dinners. They were getting to eat out of you. But I wasn't being invited. And I was like, Exactly. I did the sharp intake of breath, Whoa is me, don't they like me, all these things. And one of my wonderful teammates pulled me aside and said, You're the boss.
Camilla Love
No one wants to hang out with you.
Cynthia Scott
Actually, they don't want to be your friend. They don't want to hang out with you. And I was.
Camilla Love
Like, Oh.
Cynthia Scott
Got it. Oh, really? But once I overcame the personal like, but I'm nice, why don't they always bring my friend? I realised that actually there is a hierarchy and an expectation of bureaucracy in... Not bureaucracy, just but of leveling in some Asian markets that I found that it just is what it is. And so I will say over the three and a half years that I was in Asia, it only took about a year for me to break them down and let me arrange dinners and whatever. But it was always there a little bit that there was, you know, they wanted to get to know me and let me get to know them. But at the end of the day, I was still the boss.
Camilla Love
Regardless of whether you were in the office or not.
Cynthia Scott
Yeah, exactly. And so similar really, the other funny story was we had a group chat so that we could all talk to each other on the dealing room desk. But you had to, every morning when you get in, you have to be invited into the chat. I would come in, I'm like, Hey, I'm here. Can someone invite me? And they're like, Uh huh, yeah, just a minute. I'd get invited into the chat and there'd be no history. I'm like, Oh, they've started a new chat because I've joined. So it just, like, things like that where you go, there just, there was much more caution about my seniority than I experienced in Australia. In Australia, I was the boss, but I was very much one of the team and an equal. Whereas in Asia, I just found, and particularly in places like Korea, there was much more... I mean, respect is the wrong word because I don't want to suggest that my AUS teams didn't respect me, but there was a lot more importance placed on your position in an organization than I was used to. I had to adjust my Australian management leadership thought process.
Camilla Love
I reflect on this sometimes, and maybe this is a too deeper question to ask for today. But coming on from that, do you find sometimes leadership can be quite a lonely place?
Cynthia Scott
Yes, without a doubt. But I think that the thing that I found out about leadership that I didn't know before I found myself in this position was it is such a privilege. It's such a privilege to get to know people and to be the custodian of their future and their development. I don't take that privilege and that responsibility lightly. But what it does mean, to your point, is that sometimes you can't talk to people about things. And so it can be really lonely because you have to make decisions, or you have information, or something happens that it's on your watch and it's yours to manage, and you can't talk to people about it. I reflect back on I was CEO of Barclays in Australia when Barclays globally went through quite a lot of challenges, the old liveable crisis, for those who remember. I was responsible for the business that was further away from that. But I was on the executive team in Asia Pacific, and we lost our CEO, and then our chairman, and then our COO on three consecutive days. And this is globally. So you imagine that in an Australian context, a company losing those three people, it really shakes the foundations.
Cynthia Scott
And I knew at least 24 hours ahead of everybody else in Australia what was going to happen. But I had to front the team every day and talk to them about what was happening. And of course, in those situations, the team always say to you, Is this it? Is there anything more? And that's a really hard question when you know, yes, there's more coming, but I can't tell you. And so in those instances, it can be incredibly lonely because you don't have anyone that you can actually have as a sounding board.
Camilla Love
Yeah, absolutely. I've been in those circumstances a few times and it is lonely. There is no one to talk to about it. There's no one who understands. And you do want to do the best for your team, right? So you.
Cynthia Scott
Have.
Camilla Love
This juxtaposition of mindset on you want to do.
Cynthia Scott
The best by.
Camilla Love
Your team, but you also need to do the best by the business.
Cynthia Scott
I think the thing that's really important for everyone is to recognise the value of network. I probably came to the idea of networks a bit late in my career because I just was head down getting on with it. And when I got back to Australia in about 2010, I remember a fabulous woman who's a mentor of mine saying to me, Now, who do you know here? Who's in your network? And I was like, Wow.
Camilla Love
I don't need other people.
Cynthia Scott
No, it wasn't that at all. It was more like, I haven't had time to do that. I'm like, Really? I've just had three kids and I'm going to see... I haven't got time. And she gave me a metaphorical bit of a way back and said, You have to have a network and I will help you and you need to invest in it. And so I really proactively began from that point to think about, Well, how do I build a network? Who is valuable in my network? How can I be a valuable member of other people's networks? The reason I raised that is because I think about the COVID period, I wasn't working. During COVID, I was... Well, it sounds like I was lying on a beach. I was doing no one was consulting. No one was going to get outside of the whole.
Camilla Love
Five.
Cynthia Scott
Days. Exactly. I was walking round and round my block in 5 K. But I wasn't a full-time executive. I was doing consulting work. But actually what I thought was just fabulous was during that period, the old y old leadership team from when I was at Telstra, reformed. And by that, I mean, everyone was in different roles, different jobs. There were a couple that were still at Telstra, and I'm sure I hope they don't mind me saying this. But we started speaking again once a week. And we just got on the phone to talk about what was happening, to share perspectives and support. And I didn't have a team that I was responsible for at that point. And some of those executives had moved on to very different roles, very big roles. But having a forum where we could safely bounce things off one another was really important. And so the benefit of developing a network and fostering a network, I think, is something that people shouldn't forget about.
Camilla Love
Yeah, we definitely talk about it a lot here. And it's one of what I would call my super powers, my networking. But it's the whole that's a whole another story which could go on for another half an hour. Hey, but I wanted to talk and you mentioned Telstra, I wanted to talk about how you made that jump between Barclays and Telstra. Totally different segments. Was there a safe platform that you could jump from and into, or did you just go and say, Whatever is out here, A and B? How did it work?
Cynthia Scott
Well, a couple of things. It's actually really interesting. A couple of things happened. I'd been at Barclays for nearly 10 years. I'd been the CEO for four. Two quite important things happened to me that year. One was that I went to Oxford and did a strategic leadership course, which was really self reflective. Who am I? What's my leadership style? What do I want my leadership future to be? And then the second thing that happened was, ironically, I was nominated for a Telstra Business Women's Award, which I actually went on to win. T But as part of that process, you have to fill in all these forms about yourself and your leadership and what have you. And so I found myself in my early 40s at this point, really reflecting on, well, what am I going to do with the rest of my life? And I'd been a banker for 21 years, and I knew I didn't want to go on to boards at that point because I was still very much enjoying a hands on, running a P&L leading team. And so I actually spent a couple of months working with a career coach. And it was just like when you were back at the end of in school, e where they let you think about anything.
Cynthia Scott
You can do anything with your life. And so we had this really open conversation about what are the possibilities? What might you want to do with the rest of your life? And the second thing that she helped me do, which was really important, and I think lots of people don't do this or haven't really thought about doing this, is I found a way to articulate my experience in a narrative that transcended industries. And the reason why I said a lot of people do that is because you could have quite easily looked at my CV at that point and said, Well, you've been an investment banker for 20 years. You're a deal junky. You just do deals and generate revenue. So that's what you're going to do for the rest of your career. Whereas we were able to articulate a narrative that said, I'm a manager of capital. And managing financial capital is my technical skill set. But managing human capital is my passion. And so if you have an opportunity where either you have a lot of capital or you need some capital, and where you have people, and ideally they're going through change, I'm your girl.
Cynthia Scott
And that actually is who I am. But it doesn't put me into a pigeonhole. Just serendipitously, I met Andy Penn, and we were having a conversation. He was a client of mine. We were having a conversation about Telstra, and it ended up being this really long conversation of a couple of hours about what Telstra needed and what I had done. Andy and David, though he backed me and were willing to effectively create a role for me to move from being the CEO of Barclays to where I absolutely was a subject matter expert, where everybody deferred to me, to being the head of strategic finance, which was a big enough role that leveraged my technical skills, but it wasn't so big because I had never covered telecom co. I didn't understand telecommunications. My friends at the time were like, You can't even use the remote. How is this going to work?
Camilla Love
Getting your kids to fix the internet, that stuff.
Cynthia Scott
Yes. But you know what I did? You e people talk about the imposter syndrome. I honestly, I said to people at the time when I was announced that I was making the move to Telstra, I said to people, I want to do something that gets me out of my skis. I want be challenged. I want to wake up in the morning and think, what on earth have I done? I can tell you, for the first six months, I was like, what on earth have I done? But not in a bad way. Just that I would sit in meeting after meeting. Let's be honest, when you're in a meeting, typically you're sitting there thinking, when can I say something that sounds good? Or when can I ask a question and interject in a way that's going to make a positive contribution to this discussion? And having been the CEO and the subject matter expert, I could do that until the cows came home when I was in finance. I sat in meeting after meeting at Telstra for six months, and I would be laughing to myself because I was not thinking about, what could I interject that would make me seem clever?
Cynthia Scott
I was thinking, what the hell are they talking about? I don't even understand this. I'm not following this conversation. I don't even understand what they're saying. And that's it. And so I realised that actually they were speaking another language. It was all acronyms, and I had largely no idea what they were saying. And so I remember in my first review after about six months, I think this is a bit too much information. But Andy said to me, You're a bit quieter than we expected. That's what I said, Well, I'm struggling a bit with the acronym. And so I got myself a guru. And I got this fantastic guy who was a bit younger than me, hadn't been around for quite as long, but he'd spent all his career in telecommunication. And I would literally text him.
Camilla Love
In the.
Cynthia Scott
Middle of meetings, And I would go, What is a top hat? I know what it is in a Fred Astaire context, but in a telko context, I didn't used to know what it is. I do now. And he would just write back, and in case you're wondering, it's the box that sits on top of the NBN boxes. It's an extra piece on top of the telko boxes. It's an extra piece that they had to put on for the NBN. So he would go back, Oh, it's a box, blah, blah, blah, that. And he'd give me some context. And then I realized that actually I was understanding the meetings. And what's more, even though I hadn't spent my whole career in that industry, I had some really relevant experience and perspectives that was valuable because I had seen so many different industries in my finance career, and I began contributing. And from that moment, I thought, I'm not going to do that again. If I make another shift into a different industry, I'm going to have the confidence to back myself and just learn the language and dive right in.
Camilla Love
And then you did that for center. So you've gone.
Cynthia Scott
From.
Camilla Love
Te lco into property, essentially.
Cynthia Scott
Yeah. Well, I mean, so even when I was at Telstra, I had responsibility for... We started up a telstra energy business I had telstra Health, the digital health business. Managing doctors is another interesting family in the heart of my career. But yeah, then I went to center group. Now, I did have some experience in real estate in so far as when I was an investment banker, my industry specializations were financial institutions and real estate. So I at least had a bit of a head start on their language and their acronyms. But again, yeah, you're right. I think I developed a strength in terms of being able to move between industries because I wasn't a subject matter expert in any of them, but had a breadth of experience through finance candidly that I could then bring to different industries.
Camilla Love
And having the confidence in backing yourself, too, I think is critical.
Cynthia Scott
Absolutely. I mean, if I could go back to the beginning of my career, it wasn't that I was shy or retired hiring, and it wasn't that I was lacking confidence. But I actually would, and I would say to anyone listening who's in the earlier part of their career, absolutely have the confidence to take calculated risks. I was quite risk averse through the early parts of my career. And if I'd known then what I know now, I probably would have taken more calculated risks.
Camilla Love
So then, what keeps you up at night, right now, thinking about your current role and things like that?
Cynthia Scott
Well, the thing that generally I worry about more than anything as a CEO is usually the people. And it's just that idea that I just feel a real responsibility that I want them to have great careers. I want the business to be successful. I want to be successful for our customers, et cetera, et cetera. But right now, probably the biggest thing that keeps me up at night in relation to our business is that it is not well understood. Even the IBF example, I can say I worry about rising interest rates, I worry about inflation, I worry about the consumer balance sheet because of the negative impact that that can have on our business. But those risks, we can manage and we can see them and you can mitigate them. But actually, the lack of real understanding of our business and what we do and who we are, I mean, it's on me and it's on us to fix that. And just every time we do something, it seems we just get hit again. So I feel like we're waiting through treaty a little bit at the moment. But I really will be focusing on that next year in terms of just getting a much clearer narrative and a better understanding from all.
Camilla Love
Of our stakeholders. Yeah, indeed. And I guess you get swept up in other competitors and their perceptions as well, where you're running your own business, doing your own thing with your own purpose, and you cannot be swept up with your competitors either.
Cynthia Scott
No. But I think if you think about our industry, so by now, Palette has only been around for less than 10 years. And honestly, if you were our founders, up until about 18 months ago, being part of such fast growing, successful industry was great. But one of the things that I was very proactive in doing in the last few weeks when you will have seen this when I treasury released their options paper in relation to the regulation of Buy Now, Pay Later is that was our chance to break from the pack. We are different. We do operate already with an Australian credit licence. We do already run our Buy Now, Pay Later product as though it was a regulated product. So all of the consumer protections that they're talking about, we.
Camilla Love
Already do.
Cynthia Scott
And we are different than any other competitor in our market. And so I understand that is a bit controversial because we are breaking from the pack from an industry perspective. But from my view, we are the high watermark in terms of how we behave. And so when we engage with treasury, they've given us that feedback. So I'm keen to see the bar raised for the whole industry because it's protecting consumers. And at the end of the day, anything that protects consumers is a good thing. It's a good thing. Absolutely. Yeah.
Camilla Love
So we've talked a lot about the journeys of your career and your role at the moment, but you do so many things outside of your day job. And if you weren't busy enough, your diary will be more full once you put all these other stuff in. So tell me about some other roles that you're involved with and why you do these things.
Cynthia Scott
I've always taken great pleasure from what I would call skills based volunteer learning, for want of a better term. I've got an ability to understand a balance sheet. I've got an ability in capital raising and fundraising. I understand developing strategy, etc. And of course, I largely deploy that in my day job. But being able to use that skill set to have an impact on organisations or communities where they may not have access to that quite so naturally is what really drives me and gives me the satisfaction that I need holistically. I've always combined executive work with non executive work. I've always been involved in things like, I was on the board of Fox tel. I earned at Fox tel. I was on the board of a company for auto home in China. I've always done that executive and governance work. But the other thing that I've always been really keen on pursuing is not for profit work. Having a rounded career. So over the years, I've been involved with organisations like the Sydney Women's Fund, which is helping women and children in Greater Sydney. I was on the Board of Room to Read for eight years, which is a global not for profit helping eradicate illiteracy in developing countries and building schools and libraries and providing girls with scholarships.
Cynthia Scott
I just love being involved in organisations like that that are incredibly impactful. The other organisation I've been involved with for a long time is Adara. And Adara is a fantastic example where about 15 executives and non executives in Australia, we use our corporate finance skills and we make them available pro bono for Adara to then actually generate fees. And 100 % of the fees that are made by Adara go to their not for profit, which helps women and children in Uganda and Nepal. So there that Adara is the leading provider of neonatal intensive care in places like Uganda and Nepal. And one example that I just find mind blowing is when they built the first neonatal intensive care hospital for maternal care, it was a 25 day walk to get to the hospital. So Adara is the specialist globally. They're the world leader in NICUs where you don't have reliable energy. So can you imagine building a NICU without electricity? Phenomenal anyway, I love being able to use my skills a little bit to generate income or fees that can power an organization like that.
Camilla Love
Yeah, absolutely. And as a mother of a child who was in the NICU for at least two and a half weeks, so my eldest Henry was in the NICU for a bit, and this is in a developed country, let alone a developing country. You're right. Using the skill set that you already have in a meaningful way that has much more impact than necessarily getting a wage, but actually changing the lives of others, it provides a greater purpose.
Cynthia Scott
And I think it would be my, I guess, my provoc or my challenge to anyone that's listening, think about what else can you do with your skill set? What are you passionate about? And what can you do with your skill set to help others? So whether it is, if you've got finance skills, there's a multitude of different organisations who would love to have you help them. And the other thing that I'm incredibly passionate about, as I think you and I have talked about, is diversity. And there's probably some method in the madness that in almost every organization I've been in, I've been involved in setting up the women's network. Or when I was in Asia, I established with the great girl a women's industry network called Women in Finance Asia. I'm passionate about this. And I don't know, everyone always says, How do you find time? You just find time. It's a question of prioritisation. If it's important to you.
Camilla Love
You find time. Totally.
Cynthia Scott
And I.
Camilla Love
Get asked that all the time, How do you fit this all in? I'm like, well, if you have passion and you have purpose, you absolutely, you're right. You definitely find time.
Cynthia Scott
And I don't sit on the couch all that much, except when I'm watching rubbish TV with my kids. And now.
Camilla Love
I've been watching Wednesday, which has been great tip for the year.
Cynthia Scott
Oh, I can have. I've got a list. I'll add it to my list. Very good. Very good.
Camilla Love
So I ask this question on all of my podcast to all the guests because everyone has a different answer. And I find the answer quite fascinating about the timing of when it was delivered. So the question is, what's the most valuable advice you've been given and why it was so important to you at the time that you received it?
Cynthia Scott
That's a relatively easy one for me. And I'll give you the context because you're right, the timing of receiving the advice was important. I was acting CEO of Barclays for six months before I was able or willing or prepared to put my hand up and throw my hat in the ring. I self selected out of being in the process because I didn't think I was ready. I had, as I mentioned to you, a fantastic mentor. And I rang her one afternoon on the home from work and I said, I've met all the blokes that they're interviewing for this job, and I actually think that I've got the skills, I've got better skills than them. And I said, But I still don't want to put my hat in the ring. And she said, Why? And I said, Because honestly, I'm afraid that they'll say no. And so if you think about any time where you're concerned about asking the question because you think that they're going to say no, she said to me, You have to reframe how you think about the word no. If you think about the word no as actually an incredible opportunity to open a door so that you can ask why, then actually you might look for the no.
Cynthia Scott
I've used that time and time again. A ctually, she and I then role played it, and she said, Okay, you pitch to me why you want the job. T hen she said to me, No? Oh, my.
Camilla Love
Gosh.
Cynthia Scott
How devastating. No, but then that then enabled me to say, Well, I respect that you've said no. Help me understand, what is it that I would need to do for the behaviours you would want to see from me, or what you think is missing in my skill set, so that you would say yes. And the reason why that reframing is so important is because it gave me the confidence, frankly, to go and have the conversation with my chairman, and he didn't say no. But it also is a skill that I've then deployed in lots of different scenarios. So you think about a performance review or asking for a promotion, or asking for a pay rise. The reason often why people, and frankly, often why women, are nervous about doing that is because you've already decided in your own mind you don't deserve it, and the answer is probably going to be no, and you don't want to hear the no. So I've used it time and time again to rephrase it, to actually then say, if you do get the no, or you don't get the answer you want, to then say, ask a really specific why.
Cynthia Scott
What is it that I would need to do, or would need to have done, so that you would promote me, or give me a pay rise, or whatever it is that you're asking for? It's such a powerful tool. And I wish more.
Camilla Love
People used it. What have you learnt from your why answers?
Cynthia Scott
I.
Camilla Love
Could have only imagined.
Cynthia Scott
I've learned so much about the impact that I have on others. You know how they say we judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their impact. Actually asking a really specific question, what is it that I would need to do or need to have done? You'll get the feedback that you actually need that's actionable. That's what's been so incredibly valuable about that. But I will say, I've also had at least one instance where the person on the other end of that conversation couldn't actually articulate the answer.
Camilla Love
That's devastating.
Cynthia Scott
But it made them realise that actually they were...
Cynthia Scott
I don't want to say it was an unfair decision, but that they were not being... They were not clear in their mind as to why they'd made the decision. And so it actually encouraged them to think more deeply about the decision that they'd made or the feedback that they'd given me.
Camilla Love
Well, that is such an amazing lesson. And thank you for imparting it onto everybody. So that's the gauntlet if anyone out there is listening. So anyway, at the end of our podcast, we do this quick fire round. So what it is is that I say something and then you got to do, say whatever's in your head.
Cynthia Scott
Okay. Right.
Camilla Love
Shoot. Yeah. So you're ready to go? Yeah? Well, I'm ready. Okay. I think you might have already answered this one already in our conversation. But what is the one piece of advice you'd give to your 20 year old self?
Cynthia Scott
Oh, yeah, definitely. Be confident in your abilities and take more calculated risks.
Camilla Love
Yeah, great. I think that's only to reiterated and reiterated.
Cynthia Scott
Absolutely.
Camilla Love
If I wasn't doing this job, I'd be.
Cynthia Scott
A ballerina.
Camilla Love
You would be, definitely. How would your friends describe you?
Cynthia Scott
Calm and trusted.
Camilla Love
That's lovely. Wish my friends had described me as that.
Cynthia Scott
I.
Camilla Love
Will.
Cynthia Scott
Have a quick confession. I did actually ask my best friend, and she wrote back, Hard. And I said, What? And she goes, That's a hard question. And I said, Oh God, I don't know you're describing me as hard.
Camilla Love
She goes, Do you want the real truth or the truth? Yeah, exactly. I love those friends that can tell you anything doesn't matter. Absolutely. What's the most important money lesson you've learned?
Cynthia Scott
I would say be judicious about when you take risks. So I bought a house very young, but that was a calculated risk, and I was quite judicious. But then I'm very careful about not spending beyond my means. So my advice would be be judicious about when and where you take those risks.
Camilla Love
I think that's a good one. My hidden talent is?
Cynthia Scott
Cookier.
Camilla Love
Are you? Baker? Or a reaser? Or what's your? I'm a reasonable person.
Cynthia Scott
Or savery? No, I'm a savery girl. My eldest daughter is a baker, so lockdown was a real challenge for us because she was relapsing quite a bit. Too much. Yeah. So basically the way our lockdown worked was she would bake trays of cinnamon scroll every day. And then I would walk them in a 5K radius and leave them at friends front doors.
Camilla Love
Getting everybody else fat and not.
Cynthia Scott
Getting fat. Exactly. No, I'm more of a Savory, I'm more at a traditional roast dinner girl.
Camilla Love
Great. Okay. On my bucket list is?
Cynthia Scott
To go to the Maldives.
Camilla Love
I've been there and it is seriously amazing.
Cynthia Scott
I know, but everybody tells me that. And every time I think about a holiday, then you look at how you have to hop to get there. Anyway, it's absolutely on my bucket list.
Camilla Love
Yeah, the diving, definitely. If you've got your diving certificate, it's seriously amazing. Tell me something that no one else knows about you.
Cynthia Scott
Well, it will not surprise you. I don't wear open toed shoes.
Camilla Love
At all?
Cynthia Scott
Because not if I can avoid it.
Camilla Love
Even because.
Cynthia Scott
My feet are like, mangled from being a dancer.
Camilla Love
Oh, I could imagine.
Cynthia Scott
Okay, yeah, got it. And I just have a thing about how mangled my feet are from being a ballerina. But people would never expect that because they don't really think of me as a ballerina these days.
Camilla Love
Do you still dance?
Cynthia Scott
Yeah. Here's another little thing. So in 2018, I read an article about the link between early onset dementia and how you can stave it off through dance. And I convinced my best friend, the one who said I'm calm, I convinced her that after a 30 year year hiatus, it was time for us to get back in the studio. And we went back to ballet. And so I do a ballet class every Sunday morning.
Camilla Love
Wow.
Cynthia Scott
Which I love. And I love the endorphins and I love... I'm not particularly good anymore, if I'm honest, but I love it.
Camilla Love
So is it you at the front with all the jealous people behind you? Is that how it works? I wish we'd still do it.
Camilla Love
I.
Cynthia Scott
Will confess, I do do a beginner class, but because I just don't want the stress of it being too hard. And I love the music and I love the endorphins. So there's a little bit of that where sometimes the teacher will be like, You should be doing doubles. I'm like, Okay, all right, I'll do doubles.
Camilla Love
And it's like the teacher is telling you what to do is coming back to your seven year old self.
Cynthia Scott
No, actually, what happens is there's a lot more of... The mind is really willing and the body is like, Are you kidding me? N o, we're not.
Camilla Love
Doing that. Because you remember like, Oh, I could do that Demi Point.
Cynthia Scott
Oh, you have.
Camilla Love
Muscle memory? Yeah.
Cynthia Scott
Then my back is I can't walk or my knees. My ostopath keeps saying, Do not do the jumps in ballet. Stop it. And then every class, they put on a really good piece of music. And I'm like, Don't tell my ostia I'm going.
Camilla Love
To do the job. I love that you have gone back. I think that's awesome.
Cynthia Scott
Do you know why, though, Camilla? You have to feed your soul. Totally. It feeds my soul. Honestly, every Sunday morning when I drive away from that class, I am on the biggest endorphin high.
Camilla Love
Great.
Cynthia Scott
And that's fine. What it is that feeds your soul.
Camilla Love
And it's the best start for a Sunday morning. What else is there?
Cynthia Scott
Well, yeah. And the likelihood of me getting early onset dementia is low.
Camilla Love
Totally.
Cynthia Scott
We'll take that one, I hope.
Camilla Love
If you had a superpower, what would it be and why?
Cynthia Scott
I'd like to say something really fabulous, like I'd love to be able to heal illness. But the reality is I would love to not have to sleep. Really? Because sleep will sleep is my nemesis. And so if I could just have a power nap and that'd be it, that'd be great.
Camilla Love
Think about all the things you could pack into your day then. I don't know.
Cynthia Scott
Ten minutes. Recharge. And then I could heal lots of illness better. That's true.
Camilla Love
Buy my toothpick. Either that or more ballet.
Cynthia Scott
Exactly.
Camilla Love
If you had to invite anyone alive or dead to dinner, who would it be and why?
Cynthia Scott
This is a real personal one. So my mom died in 2008, and she was my world. And I would love, I miss her desperately, I would love to have dinner with her. She has just missed so much. And I just feel like we have so much to catch up on. So if I could ever get that opportunity, I would do that.
Camilla Love
Two tonight. Absolutely. Oh, my God. I'm tearing up.
Cynthia Scott
No, I'm sorry. I mean, that's the truth. If I had one wish, it would be that she could meet her grandchildren. Seriously.
Camilla Love
My favourite book is.
Cynthia Scott
The Great Gatsby. It's my favourite book, too. Oh, really? I was thinking about the language, it is so evocative. It's like you can pick it up and just read a chapter and go.
Camilla Love
Oh, my God. And the imagery, and the timing, and the love, and the loss, and the yep.
Cynthia Scott
Oh.
Camilla Love
My God.
Cynthia Scott
And I will say, so I'm also slightly horse mad, like a typical girl who did ballet. I had a horse called Gasping. Did you?
Camilla Love
Do you still ride? Is your next question.
Cynthia Scott
I do. Oh, my God. I do. And I'm going, just to digress, I'm going in April, I'm going to Scotland to.
Camilla Love
Do a.
Cynthia Scott
Ride in Scotland because that's always been on my bucket list. And I got an email earlier one Sunday morning of six months ago saying, we have one seat that's become available April next year. And I just wrote back, I'll take it. And then I thought, oh, my goodness, now I've got to get fly.
Camilla Love
And then you got to practice again.
Cynthia Scott
And you got to get used to it. So I'm writing each week just to get back in the Saturday, as they say, because it's six days of writing, so I need to get my saddle fitness back.
Camilla Love
Great. Absolutely. What really bad movie do you absolutely love?
Cynthia Scott
Well, at this time of year, all the ones like... No, no, no. Like Holiday and love, actually, I don't know. But actually, if I'm going to be very vulnerable, if you ask my children, they will say Blades of glory. Now, for those of you, if anyone hasn't seen it, it is just a ridiculous movie. Will Ferraro. But it just.
Camilla Love
Seriously, you.
Cynthia Scott
Can't help but laugh. Seriously, it's really bad but absolutely hysterical.
Camilla Love
Yeah, it's pretty funny actually. Okay, last question before I... Oh, my God. I'm going to laugh. This is a serious question. A career in finance is?
Cynthia Scott
Well, I'd say two things. It is never predictable, which is good, but it is also the greatest foundation that you can build your dreams on. Whether that's your personal dreams, your career dreams, your life dreams, a career in finance will give you that strongest foundation ever.
Camilla Love
My gosh, that is just wonderful. And thank you. We've come to the end and oh, my God, we could be here forever, I reckon, talking about stuff.
Cynthia Scott
But I know it's so much we could talk about. It's been so much fun.
Camilla Love
It has been. And thank you very much for your authenticity, your stories. I love the fact that you're a ballerina back then and then you fell into finance by default. And now you're still a ballerina. I love that. I love the stories about your mentor and pushing you into taking those calculated risks and actually giving you that safe environment to do that. And your passion about the business that you're in now and that nexus between the consumer and the and technology and actually allowing the crazy cat ladies to live their best lives and have a fabulous purpose. And it's been seriously awesome. And the same, it's been great to see you. Thanks for it. Really appreciate you coming on to Cheers Not Cheers.
Cynthia Scott
I've loved it. Thanks for having me. It's been my pleasure.
Camilla Love
Bye, everybody.
Speaker 3
The information that is in this podcast, we always talk about finance in this podcast, but it's not financial advice. It's actually.
Camilla Love
Really.
Speaker 3
Careers advice. If you really want financial advice, I recommend that you speak to a financial planner or a broker and work out your own personal circumstances.
Camilla Love
With that.
Speaker 3
But this is all about careers advice and how finance would be a fabulous career for you.