This week on Shares Not Shoes, we’re joined by Diana Mousina, Deputy Chief Economist at AMP, who has a talent for making economics approachable and relevant. From discovering her passion for economics in high school to landing her first job in equities research at CBA, Diana shares how curiosity, enthusiasm, and the right attitude can take you far in your career.
We dive into:
📊 What a day in the life of an economist looks like
📈 Diana’s “litmus test” for understanding economic data
🇦🇺 Her perspective on where the Australian economy stands right now
📑 How her reports shape decision making in finance
If you’ve ever wondered how economic insights turn into real world action or how to stand out in the finance industry - this episode is a must listen.
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Diana
Why are economists, you know, old grey haired? Well, because they've seen the cycles and that's also important as well. Once you've seen the cycles, you sort of know history doesn't repeat, but it rhymes.
Camilla
Welcome everyone back to another episode of Shares Not Shoes, an insider's guide to careers in finance. I'm your host, Camilla Love, founder of F3 Future Females in Finance. Shares Not Shoes is a podcast whereby I interview some of my favourite people, all with one thing in common, they work in finance. We lift the lid on who they are, how they came into a career in finance, and arm you with some knowledge about why a career in finance could be a good fit for you. I will promise that all my guests will share some amazing personal stories, will be open and honest and will inspire you. So let's go. As you all know, I'm doing a deep dive into careers in fixed income this season and I've interviewed some cracking women and I'm so excited about that. But my issue is there isn't enough of them. And whilst I'm all about careers in finance in general, there are certain segments of finance where women are very few and far between and fixed interest is one of them. Financial markets, and indeed, fixed income is nothing without economics and economists, and economics is one of those areas where females are very much less abundant.
Camilla
So I'm absolutely ecstatic to interview this person today who is making economics, and I'm going to say it, cool and fun again. She started her career as a grad at one of Australia's largest banks and quickly moved into its economics team. She was then poached to AMP to become their deputy chief economist. She's on TikTok, smashing out reels on current economic topics in a fun and entertaining way. And I'm so pleased to interview you today. Welcome to Shares, not Shoes. Diana Messina, thank you so much for having me. Oh, my God, I'm so excited. You know, I watched you on a panel at CFA conference last year and it was just, you just make it so approachable. I just love your approach to economics and the way that you talk about it and I just, you know, when I knew I was going to do this fixed income deep dive, you're on the top of the list. So can you tell me a little bit how you got into finance? What is it about economics that turns you on, gets you out of bed every morning, you know, and a little bit about your career journey?
Diana
Well, I started economics, or learning about economics when I was in high school, was actually my, my best subject I, I just had a really natural, I guess, affinity to it. I thought it all made a lot of sense. It was quite a lot of macroeconomics in high school, which I did in year 11 and 12. And I just felt like it was a natural fit for me. So when I started thinking about what I wanted to do at university, my sister said to me at the time, why don't you do commerce? They only have 12 hours a week. She was doing medicine and she was like, I'm at uni every day, my friends have 12 hours do it. So good. And then I thought, well, it also has the economics bit to it. So I went along with that. And the economics part of my degree was always my strongest and most interesting subject. I think I liked it because it sort of helped me to understand how the world works. It was analytical and I always liked maths. There was also writing involved and I always enjoyed that sort of essay writing. So I think I just gravitated towards it because I was naturally good at it.
Camilla
Yeah, and it's, it's funny because when we talk about, talk to people on this podcast, everyone's like, well, I do stuff that I'm really good at and I love. And isn't that great, like, great advice for careers? Like girls who are doing careers out there, Just do what you love and do what makes you tick.
Diana
And I guess the problem with something like commerce or economics is you don't really know what you can do with it. It sort of seems so broad that you think, well, what actual job can I have at the end of it? So that's why I think it's, it's important to talk to people about what economists actually do, what a day to day looks like, which we really try to do with some of those videos on TikTok and Instagram to give people a taste of what, of what it actually means to be an economist. Because there are also a huge range of different economists. I'm what you would call a market economist, but there are also people who work at the RBA or Treasury or they would work at like a Deloitte or a PwC or a consulting company who would still call themselves economists but actually do quite, quite different work. And that's also important to keep in mind when you're thinking about potential careers.
Camilla
So when you're at uni. So I did an economics major and I majored in development economics.
Diana
Actually that was one of my favourite subjects too.
Camilla
So fun, you know, micro financing and stuff like that. I love all that sort of stuff. So what did you know? What were your favourite subjects? Because you know, doing a commerce degree you have to do micro and macroeconomics for sure. So then you delve into the stuff later. What, what made you go further with that then?
Diana
I, I really like the development economics, but I think it was because the tutor was just amazing and he made it also interesting. But it, it's quite hard to have a, a career in that field. I don't think I even ever considered it because just wasn't really available. I mean I sort of applied for grad jobs and, and macroeconomics seemed to be the thing to do. I wasn't great at microeconomics so I sort of never wanted to go down that path. Actually it was the only subject at uni that I didn't fail the subject. I failed one test. I think that's the only thing I ever actually failed at uni. And I was so distraught afterwards that I really tried to do better but micro was never my strong suit and the macroeconomics was just, just seemed very intuitive to me that the Keynesian theories, learning about all really those, those broad theories that make up how economics is taught to students now, it all, it all just seemed to work quite easily in my brain. And I also loved econometrics, but only for the reason that I liked a boy who is now my husband.
Diana
So that also made me go to.
Camilla
The subjects a lot and he's always greater than 30. Right. And I also, I too am with you in the. I failed some microeconomics tests as well. So best of all of us, right?
Diana
That's right.
Camilla
So then, so you got a job at the CBA as your first job out. How hard was that to get? Tell me a little bit about. And then how you moved from that grad rotation into the economics department.
Diana
So basically when I, when I was in my last year of uni, I did have some jobs throughout uni and I sort of regret not doing enough an internship, what they call in your penultimate year, so your second last year. There are a lot of internships available at corporates if you want to go down that path. And I never did that because I was, I had a part time job at the time which was actually full time with the holidays and I really enjoyed it and it paid quite well and I had friends. But I think that that would have been a good stepping stone to find out more sort of about how the corporate world works because well, I was in the corporate world but I wasn't in the banking world. So I really Encourage people to think about that when they're their second. Last year of uni, I applied for basically every single grad job that I could find. Any entry level position, every single bank. Government agencies sent the resume far and wide and I sort of just saw what came back my way and I had a few interviews at different places.
Diana
CBA was the first one that gave me a role. The interview process was quite intense at all of them. You had to do psychometric testing, few different rounds of interviews. But to be honest, I think the interview process is now much harder because there is just more demand from students to get into those roles. I was part of the recruitment process at AMP for grads and it was quite intense and I thought that the calibre of candidates was much better than I ever was. So I think I do really feel for young people trying to get into the industry. I think there's more competition, people spending longer at uni, they sort of have so much experience, experience when they already come out of uni. It is just a hard jobs market.
Camilla
In that professional services and, you know, not getting a grad role is not the end of the world either. So there's lots of, there's lots of great opportunities in say for example, client service or operations that you can get into as a first job and then move around different organisations as you get to know it. But yeah, I totally, totally agrees.
Diana
But being a grad makes things so much easier, which is why those internship opportunities at uni and getting involved in as many of those things as you can just, I think will make your life easier if you can, if you can go down that path and then you don't have to worry so much about getting some of those grad jobs.
Camilla
So did you do go into the economics department as part of that grad rotation?
Diana
So I. My first rotation was in equities research and that bit of CBA doesn't exist anymore. That was sold off years ago now. And when I was in that team, I met the economics team through that and I really, I really liked what they did. So I sort of angled my way for a rotation in there, which wasn't.
Camilla
The right thing to do.
Diana
They weren't, they weren't that the graduate coordinators weren't that happy about that and being a graduate coordinator at amp, so to understand why that was so annoying. But, you know, it really worked out well for me. And they didn't, they hadn't had an intern, a graduate, I think, ever they had it. They hadn't had worked with a female For a long time and the age difference between me and the rest of the economics team was quite large. But you know, I kind of could imagine. I sort of really liked it, you know, they were sort of like father figures.
Camilla
Uncles.
Diana
Uncles, yeah, when I was, when I was in my early 20s and there was no guaranteed job at the end, but it sort of just worked out that, that there was a job at the end. So I think I just got quite lucky. I wouldn't say that I was. That I really excelled in my, in my graduate year in the team. It was quite a daunting team to be in because you sort of had to know what was going on in the economy, which I didn't really because I had studied all these theories but I had no idea what the data was actually doing. And I mean that's sort of fine. You don't really expect that of graduates, I don't think. Well, but to be honest, some of the graduates that we've had I've been impressed with. So I think I should have probably done my research a bit better and I think I probably just did get lucky because I don't think I was actually that good when I was a grad.
Camilla
But we never are and experience is everything, right? And experience on the job. So university is there really to teach you how to study and all that sort of stuff and be disciplined, but the workforce gives you a whole bunch of different skills.
Diana
If I think back, I reckon that I probably got the job in that team because I was really energetic, I was enthusiastic, I asked a lot of questions. May not have been the smartest person who knew about all this stuff, but I was willing to give everything a go and I tried to help out as much as I can so that I think that that's probably, that's probably why I ended up quite. Being lucky.
Camilla
No, not lucky. The attitude is everything, right? It's like I call it the street smarts versus the book smarts. Like I like to have a good mix of both because if you, one or the other, you sort of can get mixed up a bit. Yeah, street smarts is great and I mean you have a lot of street smarts, I can already tell. So tell me about what your day to day job like moving to amp now, what does your day to day job do? Like overnight markets, what, you know, looking at what announcements are coming out, what does it look, look like?
Diana
Basically in the morning I would always look at what happened to US markets overnight to look at the data. I would update some charts if there was Any important data that came out to update into our weeklies or into notes. And then there would always be basically something that I'm writing. So sometimes there might be data that comes out. For example, this week there was the inflation data, so I had to write about that. Today I've got a few meetings, the podcast and then also I'm writing a broader note. So I'm basically always writing something every single day. It may not get sent out that day, but there's always something on the go. I'm putting charts together for that, I'm doing some research, I'm reading about what the central banks have said or there's always data to look at as well. So updating charts Excel, talking to people and writing reports is based is basically something that happens every day. And I didn't mention talking to media either. So there might be a journalist call, there might be an interview. That doesn't happen every day, but definitely a few times a week.
Camilla
Often. Yeah, for sure. I see you everywhere. I think I saw you on the ABC not that long ago.
Diana
That was yesterday.
Camilla
Yeah, yeah. So if you had to recommend three pieces of data that someone needs to look at for the economy and for a litmus test, what are those three items of data?
Diana
I think everyone should know what's going on in share markets both in the US and Australia. Don't have to worry about the other countries, but just, just look at those two. I think people should be aware of what the central banks are doing and saying. So the RBA and the Fed come out with their post meeting announcements and they're a pretty quick read. Just read their post meeting statement to sort of understand why the central banks are thinking what they're thinking. And the last piece would be to look at the Australian housing data because it's a good sort of guide to the broader trajectory of the economy. And in that I mean to look at the daily home price data or even the monthly data that comes out from CoreLogic. But it gives you a good test as to the broader activity in the economy. I think that housing has a very important bearing on how the consumer is performing and the sentiment that goes into that. And obviously it reflects what goes on with interest rates as well. And a lot of people are interested in the housing market, whether it be from a wealth point of view or from a buying and selling perspective.
Camilla
So tell me, given those three pieces of data, and I'm going to make it short because I know that we could probably talk about this for hours, what's the current feeling in The Australian.
Diana
Economy right now, I think that things are better than where they were a year ago. Consumer purchasing power is starting to improve and that's sort of key to, we've been talking about this cost of living or COSI lives environment. I think that that's now changing wages, growth has picked up, inflation's come down, it's about a three year low. We've had some tax cuts. We're probably going to get an interest rate cut in February, maybe one in May as well. So we're going to get some lots of lower rates. That is ultimately a benefit to consumers. So I think consumers should be feeling a bit better about the next 12 months compared to where we've been.
Camilla
And so I know that you are super passionate about getting more girls into economics and me too because I didn't do economics at school, I did business studies. But the importance, yeah, so the importance of economics in everyday life, like people just don't understand that. But also having that foundation early on at school and then at university can make such an impact. Why, why are you so passionate about getting more girls doing economics?
Diana
It's a good question because, you know, as an economist I'd say, well, it's a free market, people should study what they like. Don't worry about, you know, if you're not good at something, don't worry about it. Use your comparative advantage to do what you're best at. But I do think that women and girls are not as financially literate as men and or boys. And there is data that backs that up in Australia and even globally. And in Australia we're actually doing worse compared to some of our peers. So if you look at financial literacy between girls or women in Australia versus us, uk, Europe, we're actually further behind. And I think that that's a problem because you need to be financially aware, to have independence, to be confident, to understand what's happening to your money. And a lot of the time women have said to me, oh, I just let my husband do the finances because I don't know what's going on. You guys talk about stuff on the news, I don't understand what you're saying. Or some women who've gotten divorced have said, I can't believe that I didn't know what was going on with my finances.
Diana
I don't know where my super is, don't know anything. I feel trapped and stuck. And I hear these comments a lot. And I think that the fact that we know we have this financial literacy gender gap means that it's something to work on. I don't know if it's a natural. I think that there must be some sort of natural inclination that girls have to not be as interested in investing or in managing money because you sort of see it with young girls, you see it with graduates as well. The boys are always in some share in investing competition. They're always put $1,000 here or there from a very young age. They. They're interested in it. So I think that there is some sort of natural push for boys to go there that's. That's not influenced by the environment or their community. But I think that it sort of. It becomes a problem because it feeds on itself, that girls are left behind and so they don't go into either the fields where you do that or not even that. They're just not interested in what's happening in the broader finance news environment and that has implications for their investments.
Diana
Because the longer that you're out of the market and not investing, the worse it is for you because your time in the market is sort of everything.
Camilla
Yeah. So then, you know. Because I know a lot of schools are getting rid of economics and not offering it anymore, which I think is really, really sad, just because the demand's not there. So, I mean, I just wish everyone had the opportunity to do some sort of economics somewhere in their schooling career.
Diana
It's strange because I had heard that, I didn't know about this until last year when some kids in school were saying, well, economics don't even offered at my school. I thought it was madness. I don't really understand why. Maybe they're trying to combine it with business studies or some sort of broader commerce. I don't understand why schools are doing this. I think that we should have some financial literacy programmes in primary school, even to teach kids about saving and bank deposits, credit cards, debit cards, because even kids from a young age use mum and dad's credit cards to pay for things that I think my kids think that money is free because I just tapped my phone and there you go, you have your finger bun from Baker's Delight. But that's not really how it works. I actually have a book called Economics for Infants that that one of my old colleagues gave to me before I gave birth. And it sort of tells kids about how economics worlds, but in a sort of a children's way, which I read to them. So I think, I mean, it's obviously down to the families to help educate their children, but it also is absolutely should be down to the schools to help with Financial literacy in primary school and then offer subjects like businesses, economics, college, commerce.
Diana
I think it's madness not to. Not to offer them.
Camilla
Yeah. But also include elements of it. Like I know in commerce when I was in year nine we did a little bit, but not too much. But although I remember also in commerce that I was taught how to sign a check, which is hilarious considering I think I've signed one in my whole entire life. And I've been thinking about it a bit, going okay, well maybe economics needs a bit of a makeover or something like that. Or maybe there needs to be sort of more articulation of what the purpose, how people use economics, why it's important to everyday life. What are your thoughts on that?
Diana
I guess if I look back and I think who have been the economists that people see on the news, it's generally been the older man, grey haired, which, there's nothing wrong with that, but maybe people get a bit bored of looking at that or they just think, oh well it's, it's more of the same. But economics has changed. There are a lot of females in the field. I know a lot of female economists, both senior and junior. There are many female chief economists now. And I hope that with things like our videos and our podcasts that, podcasts like, like yours, that people sort of become more interested in it and understand that, you know, it's not just theories that economics applies in everyday life. And I think the last few years will show you that economics has been extremely important. Why have we had high inflation? When is inflation going to slow down? When are interest rates going to be cut? Why have they been hyped by so much? You sort of need to understand all these things to help you, to help explain what's going on in your life and also how that reflects in the share market and things like the labour market.
Camilla
And I mean I love the fact that you do all the TikTok videos and things like that because making it fun and entertaining and approachable is such, I mean is, is the job that needs to be done, I think to, to really, you know, encourage more girls and actually just more young people to get into economics. So why, how, how, how's the feedback been on that? Because you know, economics is, I would say, you know, a bit stayed and stuff like that. And you doing TikTok reels on economic issues might be like pushing the boundary a little bit.
Diana
I think to some people who are very traditional about it. I mean, I have had, generally the feedback has been really, really positive and you know, we do a lot of TV interviews and things before we do the videos. But now I feel like people are like, oh, I've seen you through your TikToks, not through, you know, ABC or Bloomberg, but through the TikToks, which I think is really funny all through the LinkedIn videos. But you know, I have had some people saying to me, some negative comments saying, well, why are you wasting time on this? You know, just, just focus on your day job and why are you making these silly videos? I think that's more of an older attitude towards economics.
Camilla
They're just jealous.
Diana
Maybe, maybe they're jealous. I'm happy to include them in my reels if they want to be. We don't discriminate.
Camilla
That's great. So maybe I can ask the question how, how does your data get used by the market?
Diana
The data that we you put out.
Camilla
And your thought pieces and the stuff that you write, how does it, how does it get used by the market? Because sometimes, you know, sometimes I find that economists put out stuff just to put out stuff rather than, you know, actually having an understanding of actually how it gets used.
Diana
So there's multiple avenues. If I think about the internal aspect, our forecasts are used by different parts of the business. So in the strategy team at the board level, especially for things like our share market forecast or our interest rate assumptions they use for stress testing in parts of the bank. So there is a big. And also for longer term capital market assumptions for share market returns, there's a big internal focus on those. We are also part of the portfolio management decisions that go on with some of our funds. We have weekly meetings with our portfolio management team to talk about how the economics is related to the investment process. So we are heavily tied to the investment outcomes internally. Then when I think about externally we obviously have a media profile to maintain. So there's competition between economists about who has the call right about the rba. It's mostly about the RBA call and I guess that that's, that's a profile piece and places like the major banks, the traders may be making calls on things like the RBA or on views about that. So they'll be using the Economist forecast on that. Obviously that's not the case at A and P, but that's how other economists views would be used.
Diana
And then from a policy point of view, I think economists often put some sort of pressure on the government or even on the RBA sort of to think about new perspectives or to challenge their some policies that they may be considering. That is Often the case as well. For example, yesterday or this early this week, the market moved quite heavily after the inflation data to price in a very high chance of February rate cut by the rba. So I think the way that the market moves and the way that economists think about things and contribute to that market consensus can, can also shift potential policy.
Camilla
So $150,000. Question 2, 3, 4 rate cuts this year.
Diana
I'm going to go with our house UNC3. So going from 4.35 to 3.6.
Camilla
Great. So I want to change tact a little bit and talk about a mistake possibly that you've made in your career. You learn more from your. Your mistakes than you do from your successes. So do you have one that sticks in your mind that you can tell us a little bit about?
Diana
Well, I'm making mistakes every single day. Even earlier this week, I made a mistake when I sent out my note. I just. I've had the wrong dates in there, like, just silly things like that. I. I need to be better at doing that. That was one of my goals this year, actually, to be. To. To look at more of the things.
Camilla
Oh, no, and you're a January night.
Diana
It was terrible. But a broader mistake, actually, one of the. I sort of alluded to it before was actually when I. When I went against what my graduate coordinators were saying is I'll just organise my own rotation. I think. I mean, in hindsight that probably wasn't the best thing to do, just from you know, a. An interpersonal point of view or, you know, to sort of keep the integrity of things like the graduate programme. I do think that that's quite important. I mean, it ended up working out in my favour. But at the same time, I don't know what. I could have still ended up in the same position that, that I'm in if it didn't go that way. But I just think that that wasn't the right way to go about things and I sort of just regret that more just from a personal point of view, I think. And the other biggest regret in my career, I guess, was not doing an internship earlier. I think that would have given me a much better understanding of the way markets work and also not going on exchange. When I was in uni, I really regret not doing that.
Camilla
I didn't either. And it's one of my biggest as well. I. My view is set your wings overseas a little bit, have a good time and come back. Because, I mean, learning about different cultures and different workplaces and all that sort of stuff. Is makes you grow as a, as.
Diana
A person and maybe not overseas. I guess a bit earlier. It just never opportunity, never the habit opportunity is that, that have come up. But you know, I've always, I've always said no, I'm probably too much, I'm probably too risk, risk averse myself.
Camilla
So then given that you're the position that you're in today, what, what does leadership look like for you? Like how do you, who do you see yourself as a leader for others and how do you, how do you enact that?
Diana
I think that I, I can be seen to be a leader for young people wanting to get into economics and I have been told that by some young people. So I hope that as a leader that I can inspire people and even get them to understand more the detail of what they can actually be doing in a day to day job. I think that that's really important because a lot of the time when I was at uni, people would just talk about these random jobs. You just sort of think, I have no idea what you do. But I ask a lot of questions. My old boss even said to me once, don't ask me any more questions for today. But my way of like I ask questions because I'm just generally interested in the detail of things. That's how I, that's how I understand what actually goes on. So to me sort of explain to people the day to day of what you do and trying to inspire them to have a career in economics or even in finance in general. I think that that's one way that I can lead people.
Camilla
And how do you influence, I mean given that the information that you provide your peers at your portfolio manager decisions or even at the board level, how do you influence them to listen to you and to take you seriously? Or surely there's a whole bunch of imposter syndrome in there and all of that. How do you, how do you get the buy in? How do you get the confidence to be able to do what you do at that level?
Diana
To be honest, I don't even know if I have the buy in. I sort of just think, well, I just got to do the best job that I can. I have to be a subject matter expert, which I think I am. So you know, if someone's challenging me on something like inflation data or GDP data, well, I know the information better than them. Yes, they may be really senior, they may be at a board level, but the detail I am the expert in. So I feel quite confident about that because, you know, I look at the Data so closely that I absolutely understand everything that it's doing. But it is really hard and I'm, I definitely haven't mastered that skill. My boss who's the chief economist, Shane Oliver, has very much mastered that skill. But he's also been in the company for 41 years. So.
Camilla
Yeah, exactly.
Diana
You get buy in through, through time and especially in something like why are economists, you know, old grey haired? Well, because they've seen the cycles and that's also important as well. Once you've seen the cycles, you sort of know history doesn't repeat but it rhymes. So you can explain to people, well this is what happened, then maybe these are the things that will happen and that, that gives you street cred. So I do think that in, in a role like mine, time does help with, with sort of getting people to, to, to listen to you. But also being a subject matter expertise.
Camilla
It, I absolutely agree. So one question I ask a lot of our guests is about advice and it's, you know, a piece of advice that you have been given in your career, whether it be at the right time or whether it be the person who gave it to you. What was that piece of advice and why did it resonate with you? Oh look, there's a, there's a laugh. Oh my God. Hopefully it comes with a really good story.
Diana
Well, it was this girl that I met in one of my old jobs who is now one of my best friends. But I asked her to be my mentor because she was really stylish and beautiful.
Camilla
Do we need to shout out to her because she's, is she still stylish and beautiful as she is and she.
Diana
Knows who she is. I won't mention any names but she gave me one piece of advice that has just stuck with me and it's going to sound really odd, but she said you just have to stoke people's egos. And I, I sort of didn't really understand it. I didn't really understand at the time. But you know, I had some challenges with people that, that I was working with and it really, it really helped because I think when you show people respect, whether it's fake or not, I mean usually it is real to some extent. I mean you have to show your, your senior people at work and you and your peers some, some sort of a respect. I think when you show people respect that they're after and you sort of are interested in them and you stoke their ego to some extent, I think it really helps to, to relate to one another. So that's actually One piece of advice, while it's a bit strange, I think has been really worthwhile. It's really stuck with me and I've. And I have used it even when I don't realise that I'm using it.
Camilla
Yeah. And that's funny because it comes for me. That is like. So I. I love to network. It's my like just love it because I like meeting new people, like finding out what people tick and stoking people's egos while you network is just a thing, right? Your superpower of asking all those questions and stuff like that. People just like to talk about themselves and if you just. And if you get to ask them questions all the time and you're like, what do you do here and what do you. What are your thoughts on this? And they just like to talk and that is whilst you're interested and they are interesting to you. That's the stoking of the ego. I totally understand it. And it can get you places because it gets you buy in, so it's important. Well, there you go. Shout out to your bestie on that. So, Deanna, we're at the end and we're going to do a quick fire round at the end of every podcast. You ready?
Diana
I'm ready.
Camilla
You ready to go? First thing, first thing that comes in your mind. How would your friends describe you?
Diana
Feisty, Feisty.
Camilla
Oh, is there stories?
Diana
Not for the podcast. I think my friends think like I'm very passionate about what I'm passionate about and I'm just not going to take any shit.
Camilla
Yeah, totally love it. What's the most important money lesson you've learned?
Diana
Just get into the market.
Camilla
Yeah. I think it goes back to what you said before. About time.
Diana
Whether it's the housing market or shares. Just do it.
Camilla
Yeah, no, time's a good time. Just get on with it.
Diana
Yeah.
Camilla
Favourite book or podcast?
Diana
A podcast. Simplifying investing with Shane and Diana. I have to say, that book, I have to plug it book. I grew up with the Harry Potter series so that's always gonna hold a special spot for me.
Camilla
So you're the Harry Potter person on everyone's trivia team. Is that what happens?
Diana
Yeah, basically. I mean, I haven't read them for a long time so I have forgotten a lot of stuff. But that was, you know, I was the same year as Harry in every single one of those books, so basically more or less. So every single girl in high school was on the playground reading Harry Potter at lunchtime.
Camilla
Okay, bonus question. What's the name of Hagrid's dog.
Diana
Hagrid's dog. Not Wolfgang, something like that?
Camilla
No, Hagrid's dog. It's Fluffy.
Diana
No, that's. That's the three headed dog.
Camilla
Oh, is it?
Diana
Yeah.
Camilla
But isn't that Hagrid's dog?
Diana
No, Hagrid's dog is called something else. Fluffy is the one that guards the. The Philosopher's Stone in the first one.
Camilla
Why is that? Anyway, whatever. Clearly I am not the Harry Potter expert here, Fang. Okay, well that's. But that's technically cheating. But yes, I'll take. I'll give it to you one pie piece of advice. You'd tell your 20 year old self back yourself more.
Diana
I think. Yeah, I don't, I think I. Yeah, I don't think I backed myself enough when I was that age.
Camilla
Well, you just don't have the confidence at that point.
Diana
Yeah, I didn't have the confidence at all.
Camilla
What movie do you absolutely love? That's totally embarrassing to admit.
Diana
I love any Hallmark Christmas movie with Lacey, you know, the girl from Mean Girls, Anything that she's in. I'll watch all of them. I watch a lot of them over Christmas every year. And there's even. Apparently my friend was telling me a Chad Michael Murray movie station. Just a station where it's him and his shows. Because I've recently watched Sullivan's Crossing, which I love. Sort of a cross between Heart of Dixie and Gilmore Girls was just so escapist. It was just trash and I just loved it. I need to find this station with Chad Michael Murray.
Camilla
Well, you'll have to email me when you find it. It's aged well. Next question. If you had to invite anyone alive or dead to dinner, who would it be and why?
Diana
I never wanted. I would never want to invite like anyone famous or like, you know, really smart person because I just don't really care. I would want to invite my grandma and ask her to show me how to make all her recipes that I have the recipes, but I want her to actually show me how to make these.
Camilla
Yeah, they're never the same, are they?
Diana
Never.
Camilla
And your mum can't do one recipe.
Diana
She has one recipe that I just cannot replicate of like these chocolate sort of balls. And I just, I wish that she would just show me how to do it.
Camilla
That's lovely. If I wasn't doing this job, I'd.
Diana
Be a. I always thought that being one of those tool guys that takes people around and like has a little flag just always seemed like the best job to me. And I think Sometimes I kind of worry, like, my job is a bit boring or like it's not, but I just, you know, I'm stuck in an office. I think if I was like, I guess in another life, I'd want to be walking around or doing something not stuck indoors. And that tour guide thing, I always just love those people. And I, you know, like, walking through East Berlin and being one of those tour guides, that would just be so cool. Learning the history of it or a museum guide or, I don't know, something like that.
Camilla
Small secret. My mum was a tour guide in the 80s when we were kids on Captain Cook cruises. So every time we go. Every time we go around Sydney Harbour, it's like, and this landmark goes here, and this is the history of that and that landmark. And I'm like, I love that. I just roll my eyes.
Diana
I don't know any of that stuff and I want to know it. I want to be one of those people.
Camilla
Well, I'll put. I'll link you up with my mum. There you go. You can have those conversations. Next question on my bucket list is.
Diana
I really want to travel through all the stands in Central Asia.
Camilla
Why?
Diana
And go to the mountains. Well, I'm from Uzbekistan and I've seen a bit of that, obviously, but I'd love to see more of that and go to the mountains. And I think the culture is just really interesting.
Camilla
And do you. Will the kids. Do you immerse the kids in that sort of stuff too?
Diana
A little bit, but they're a bit young still, so maybe when they're older. I'd love to do more of that.
Camilla
Tell me something that no one else knows about you.
Diana
I'm a bit of an open book, I guess, but to my friends, my family. I think people probably in the industry wouldn't know this, but I actually don't think. I'm very smart, I think. I think, yeah, like, that seems so silly to say, I guess, but I think I just work really hard and I have the right attitude. But it takes me a while to get onto concepts. I have to really think about things a lot. I feel like it takes me longer to get onto things than people that I work.
Camilla
But that's important because people like you always ask the questions. They need to know the mechanics of how things work.
Diana
Yeah. And so, yeah, I don't just like knowing the headlines, I like understanding how everything works.
Camilla
Exactly. So you're more. And once you get bought, like, once you know it, you're on it. Right? You totally.
Diana
Yes. Once I know it Exactly. I want it. Yes. Yes, that's right.
Camilla
Yeah. Love it. If I was a superhero, I'd be Wonder Woman. Everyone says that. Yeah, she's pretty hot. She's cool. She's cool. Yeah. Yeah, I'd take it. What secret of the universe would you most want to learn how to do?
Diana
Maybe not learn how to do, but I'd love to like be in space and figure out like black holes. Holes and all that. I don't. All that cool stuff. It just seems so. Just so not the day to day that you sort of think about, but it's. And I just don't really understand how things in the universe or in space work. So that would be very interesting to me to sort of learn about that or out there and actually experience it.
Camilla
I totally geeked out recently. I met a scientist who finds exoplanets, so planets outside the galaxy. And she's. I think she's found like 45. And I was like, oh my God, can I ask all these questions? And I totally geeked out on it. So totally understand. Okay, last question. Describe in three words why economics and obviously finance is a wonderful career choice for others.
Diana
It's fascinating. It, it helps you in your day to day life and it's lucrative.
Camilla
Totally. Exactly. Well, Diana, it was great to finally have this conversation. I so love what you do for economics and just making it cool again and you know, just being not one of the, you know, grey haired old dudes. You know, we'll all be grey haired at some point in time and we definitely would have seen. Oh, really? Yeah. But that's what hair dyes for.
Diana
That's why I'm going to hairdresser tonight.
Camilla
But it's, you know, being in the cycles and understanding and a totally, you know, history does rhyme. But it's been wonderful to get to know you and interview you today. It's been fun. So thank you very much for joining us.
Diana
Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.
Camilla
You know the information that is in this podcast, we always talk about finance in this podcast, but it's not financial advice. It's actually really careers advice. If you really want financial advice, I recommend that you speak to a financial planner or a broker and work out your own personal circumstances with that. But this is all about careers advice and how finance will be a fabulous career for.