This week, we sit down with Anne Anderson, a true fixed income guru! From starting straight out of school to managing funds through market shaking events like the GFC, Anne’s career is a masterclass in seizing opportunities, staying visible, and continuous learning.
In this episode, we cover:
📊 Why fixed income is actually sexy
🚀 The importance of being seen by decision-makers
🔥 Deep learning through crisis & preparing for the unexpected
🌍 Going from Australia to leading in Asia💡
One piece of advice for anyone chasing their dreams.
If you’re looking for wisdom, career inspiration, and market insights don’t miss this one!
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Anne
You can't get out of the way of all crises, but preparation is key.
Camilla
Welcome everyone back to another episode of Shares Not Shoes, an insider's guide to careers in finance. I'm your host, Camilla Love, founder of F3 Future Females in Finance. Shares or Shoes is a podcast whereby I interview some of my favourite people, all with one thing in common, they work in finance. We lift the lid on who they are, how they came into a career in finance and arm you with some knowledge about why a career in finance could be a good fit for you. I will promise that all my guests will share some amazing personal stories, will be open and honest and will inspire you.
Anne
So let's go.
Camilla
Today's guest is an extra special one. This person has worked in one of the world's most largest and most famous investment banks, both here and throughout Asia. While she was there, she managed over $30 billion in fixed income assets. She's now a non executive director and investment committee member for some of Australia's largest wealth managers, foundations and superannuation funds. So when it comes to investment and particularly fixed income markets, she is one of the trailblazers. She's even been described as a fixed income guru by the financial press and I can't wait to hear her story. We are very lucky to have along on today's episode. Welcome to Shares Not Shoes. Ann Anderson, so excited to have you.
Anne
Lovely to be here. Camilla.
Camilla
I can't wait to hear your journey because like for me and this, this series is all about people who work in fixed income and fixed interest market. I think this is like fixed income is like what I perceive or what other people perceive might be the poor cousin for equities, but I am actually, I actually think that they are all wrong and I can't wait to hear you tell us why they are all wrong. So why don't we start right at the beginning and tell me a little bit about how you got into finance and a little bit about your executive career to date.
Anne
Okay. It's been a long journey. So I started straight out of school actually. So from the get go I was always going to university part time and I was going to be working full time. So there I was at the end of January, finished and then I signed up for a Bachelor of Economics because economics was one of my things and maths.
Camilla
Yep, love it.
Anne
And so on. And then I started working at what was then called the Electricity Commission of New South Wales. Wow, it was, it was hard. Yeah, I could imagine insofar as when all my friends are at Uni or college full time. And here are my.
Camilla
You're not partying and then studying at night.
Anne
Yeah, well, I did, I did. It's amazing what you can fit in. So the finance, how did finance turn up? Well, it didn't really exist when I started at uni, but it emerged in the early 80s and I was very fortunate to be placed in the Treasury Group at what we call elcom. And at that time they were raising billions and billions of dollars to fund the power stations, these coal fired power stations that, that we're now closing down.
Camilla
Yeah, no, but that's a bit of a reflection right now.
Anne
Yeah, it is. And I just loved it. I just loved it. There was so much volatility. We floated the Aussie dollar. So I just came upon it when it was so young. So the good thing about it, not many people knew much. So there was an opportunity to really accelerate your growth and, you know, be part of something that was, it was new and really exciting.
Camilla
Yeah, I mean, and being right at the beginning of it in Australia, I think that's so exciting.
Anne
No, it is, it is. And that's. I often say to people when they're starting out on their career, think about an industry or a theme that is fairly nascent, where you have an opportunity to put your stamp on it because people don't know a lot yet. So you can really accelerate your progress by being there. So that was good. I wanted to know more. I wanted to differentiate myself. So off I went and did a Masters of Applied Finance. It was a small cohort. I applied. I thought, right, if I get this, I'm doing it because I didn't think I'd get in, but I did. So I was thrilled. And off I went. There was two females out of about 40 and like is, you know, a sign of the times. It's changed a little, but I must say, not a lot. And look, I just, it spoke to me. I, I loved it. I was good at it. I had a big field to play on. I had a lot of responsibility, which I grabbed with two hands. So I was able to define myself. I was a dealer. So 10 years in, an opportunity came up with a large bank, Australian bank, with a great pedigree.
Anne
And I thought, wow, this is an opportunity. I was really sad to leave my team after 10 years, but I knew that I had to go. It was a real wrench. But of course I never looked back. And so I became a dealer, which was kind of unusual at that time. So a little bit of a unicorn moment. But brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
Camilla
So what did you learn, what did you learn as a dealer though? Because you're right on the cutting edge of, you know, money like trading and all that sort of stuff. And I guarantee I. Were you the only female on the dealing floor at that point in time?
Anne
There wasn't many, but I never thought about being the woman.
Camilla
Yeah, sure.
Anne
Although it did differentiate yourself and your network. Like we talk a lot about networks, which is a really important thematic that I've learned and even more so now I'm a non exec but at that time the network, it was more about people that would put you forward and support you. So it, it was pretty challenging. But I was really committed. I was really disciplined about doing my stuff and following the markets. I loved the responsibility, I loved the whole process. And from that I worked my way up to become a portfolio manager. Then I was running the business and the rest is history.
Camilla
There's a long history between then and now. So how did you get, how did you move from Australia into having responsibilities into Asia? Because one of the things that we talk about here is the, you know, the mobility that finance as an industry can give you. Tell me a little bit about that journey and was it difficult for you to make a decision?
Anne
Well, a lot of these promotions and I guess that's one of the things like the ambition. Often the promotions were a surprise to me. So I was, you know what I mean? Like, I just thought, you know, you do your job, you do it well, you grab things, you step into spaces. Like if I'd see a space, I'd step into it, you know, quite seamlessly. And so my then boss was promoted to initially head of Asia Pacific, but then ultimately to Europe. So I stepped into his role. I was appointed as head of Australia. I had just come back after my first son, but I was up for it. This is what, mid-90s and then when he left the company, I was then promoted into the head of Asia Pacific. Asia Pacific, like the Asian business was emerging. Japan was a big part, a big source of cash flow for the global business. So extremely important as a distribution. The Asian investment piece was very young, so it was a new frontier and they needed to what we call institutionalise it. So building teams, that was also a challenge, though it was a mind bender because the cultural diversity, when you're building teams, their approach to governance, etcetera, Might be slightly different.
Anne
So you really had to adapt in a number of ways. There was a lot of travel involved, I'm sure that I loved, but with A young family, you had to balance that, that you just do, you do what you have to do because you want to and it's, it's important to your success. Yeah, so that's, that's, it was more of a promotion as, as people move through the business is how I, I ended up there. But then it's. Yeah, what you do next, isn't it?
Camilla
So then I want to ask like, was there like an aha moment for you? You know, when he's sitting there going, oh my God, I'm managing $30 billion in fixed income assets. Like was there something that just went bing? And he was like, oh, yeah, this is pretty good. This. I'm actually, I'm doing pretty, pretty well here. Like, was there something aha moments?
Anne
I remember the, the first time I was invited to the global executive committees. So that was one of the wonderful things about, you know, being in a global organisation. And we were in a magnificent place over in Europe and there am I sitting around the table with all, you know, the most senior global executives and I think that was it. I thought, oh wow, I'm at this table now. And you know, this is really important for your visibility. Of course you have to deliver, but if you're not visible to the people that are making decisions and you're not part of that, you're less effective and it's less rewarding. So having those relationships, the matrix, it's really fundamental.
Camilla
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So let's just step back a little bit and I mean this series is about fixed interest markets. And so can you give us a bit of an insight into a bit of an overview of fixing markets in general, why it's important to the financial ecosystem that they are, you know, flourishing and deep as they, as they should be, and why fixed income is actually sexy as an asset class. Because I think it's, I think it needs, you know, it's one of those asset classes that needs a bit of like a, a juzh up a re reposition in people's minds sometimes. But you know, it is one of the, is four times larger than the equities markets, like in volume. So I mean it's fabulous.
Anne
Yeah, well, it's not just volume, it's number of securities.
Camilla
Yeah.
Anne
Like there are in the, just the index there's 23,000 securities in the global index, whereas in the global equity index there's 1600.
Camilla
Yeah, right. Yeah.
Anne
I think it's the complexity that's, that's one part of it is this complexity that there's so many Dimensions and so many aspects to decision making and analysing the securities, the concepts of duration, yield, curve, credit. Yeah, it's quite complex. So that for some people that's, that's hard to understand. I think even just the formula, you know, the inverse relationship, it's upside down.
Camilla
I know, I know. So I remember, I remember getting it getting explained as like aeroplane wings on like yield and.
Anne
That'S like. Yeah, it's, it doesn't speak to everybody, I get this. But why is it important? It's fundamental that the interest rate is the foundation of the valuation of any asset because you've got to value the cash flow, be it property, equities, private equity, whatever. It's foundational. So if you don't have a fix, an understanding of where that should be, it makes it pretty hard to pay you anything. So that's the foundation, it's providing capital to everything. It's a layer of capital above equities. As many of our listeners would know, there's many layers now. There's the senior, there's mezzanine. So the growth in private capital has been a really important part of funding lots of businesses, but also providing investment opportunities for people that are seeking return. So there's lots of tools in our toolkit that really improve portfolio diversification and that's both for the investor and for the borrower, that there's different ways of one, raising capital and two, investing capital.
Camilla
That's a great overview and talk to me a little bit about how fixed income markets have changed in your, your career lifetime. Because from what I understand they've changed quite substantially.
Anne
They have massively.
Camilla
Yeah.
Anne
So when I started out it was mostly just the Commonwealth government and then when Telstra was owned by the government, it was those entities alongside the state governments. That was it. And then slowly but surely we privatised these entities like Telstra. So they came to the market and more and more people were able to access the market. We had the rise of securitization, the US in particular has been a significant driver of the build out of the fixed income market. You know, the leveraged loans, the mortgage backed securities, now the corporate.
Camilla
Yeah.
Anne
So it's, it's taken a long time. A lot of it is still over the counter.
Camilla
Yep.
Anne
So we still. It's not traded on an exchange. The use of derivatives is extremely broad. So the, for example in Australia we have the Sydney Futures Exchange. So we trade the three years and the 10 years. So there's a lot of derivatives. So this complexity that I talk about it's real. But the good thing about a lot of people that are in fixed income often are in there for a long time.
Camilla
Yeah.
Anne
Why? Because you become deep domain specialists. Because there's a lot to learn and understand because it's not just the instruments, it's actually understanding the market and understanding the psychology of markets. And that's a great thing that I learned. It's not just that technical understanding, it's actually having that element of judgement and the psychology of how markets trade and how they overreact or they don't price things in, or they price things in too much. And that's relevant to trading any market.
Camilla
Absolutely. And like, I mean I did financial markets history at uni and that, I mean that subject alone just gives you the opportunity to go back and dive into certain events during historical context and actually understand how things work and then put them into the, into today. And people, people learn that every crisis is slightly different. So I'll be. Yes. So and you were, you were the coal face in 87 and in the 90s. So tell me a little bit about that, you know, that period of time. What did you learn when you're going through, you know, financial market crises like that?
Anne
Yeah, it's the most thrilling thing I have to say. So 87. So I was in the Treasury Group and I remember the volatility that I wasn't holding decision making power. It was early in my career, I would have been mid-20s I guess, but I watched and learned. So I was working with some brilliant people who had excellent judgement and they were bold. So you have to be really confident to do these things because it's the ultimate in uncertainty and you've got to exercise judgement to, you know, to be managing risk. So I, I remember we had very large interest rate exposures and foreign currency exposures so we had to take action to hedge. So I worked under people that had courage for those decisions and I watched them, how they made the decisions and I learned so much from those experiences. Extremely stressful.
Camilla
Yeah.
Anne
And a lot was, you know, asked of us at those times. But deep, deep learning from crises and.
Camilla
Then you were managing your own like managing the money in the middle of the gfc. So I mean that, I mean that alone, I mean it's not you watching somebody else make decisions now you're the person at the top making those decisions. Right?
Anne
Yeah, yeah, that was, it was incredible. Like we, we were looking after money for insurance companies superannuation and no one had seen this before. There was moments. So what would happen Every weekend I'd watch Bloomberg continuously. Someday night some other bank would go into the situation, what I'd call the situation room.
Camilla
Yeah.
Anne
That they were getting bundled up by.
Camilla
The Fed at the time. Oh, my go. Yeah.
Anne
And if you had exposure to those banks. But the important thing was, and you can't get out of the way of all crises, that preparation is key. So one of the things that held us, our team in Australia, in very good stead and our global team was actually seeing the crises coming. Now I always say no one ever rings the bell and I don't know, they don't, don't exactly know when it's going to hit. But you've got to understand there's signs. You're watching the economy, you're watching the psychology, the animal spirits. So you start repositioning your portfolio so you get out of the way of some of the more risky elements of the market. And so we, we had called it pretty well. So we had moved our portfolio around. There's always pain points ad. So when you've been able to do that, you've de. Risked so you can look at, you can be more objective about making decisions because you're less stressed and concerned about losing money. You, you're ready to step into it rather than being pushed back into a corner. But it was, that was three years that we went through.
Camilla
I know.
Anne
And never seen anything like it.
Camilla
And that was right at the beginning. Well, it wasn't right at the beginning of my career, but it was sort of, I'm going to say, at that pivotal time. I'd probably be five years into my career at that point. So I actually, like, I just spent most of my time looking around like, what information can I find? Because, you know, having these crisis points, it's such as you say, a learning, a learning curve. And it's not every day you get that opportunity. Right. So I think it, I mean, it's exciting going through that process.
Anne
You have to step into it.
Camilla
Yeah. It's hard.
Anne
Yeah. No, step into it. And they're defining moments because if you do it well, it sets you apart.
Camilla
Yeah.
Anne
And I think that's, that's the thing that when you're moving into whatever the crisis might be, whatever context it might be, it's what you did next, isn't it?
Camilla
Yeah.
Anne
Like, okay, this is hit. How am I going to navigate this? What resources have I got around me? What do I need to shed to make space for what's ahead? And that was, that was a real. When you asked me about Pivotal moments. I think that was one of the pivotal moments because we came through it relatively well and really assisted our clients. And that embedded even better relationships and put us on a path to growth.
Camilla
Yeah, that's great. And I think that's something that we should sort of sit on for a little bit. How doing the right thing through crisis moments can build and create better and closer client relationships. I think that is a really good point to take away because some people, you know, when crisis has happened, they get super stressed, decisions go wrong. When you go, you get into stress and you put your head in the sand and go, I can't, you know, I'm not doing this anymore. Let's not talk to clients. But actually talking to clients and get them to understand what's going on and understand the decision making that you're making and the outcome, you know, creates better and more transparent relationships. And I love that.
Anne
Yep, a hundred percent. It's a hard thing to do sometimes, like delivering it, like if you have to deliver bad news. But if you have a good relationship and that's clients just want transparency, you're there to help them. So staying close, being very visible, informing them so they can manage their own stakeholders. That's what I often think that client relationship is a about helping them be a better version of themselves and their feedback to us or to me helped me be a better practitioner.
Camilla
Good, I'm glad. I have a question, and this is a real, I mean, this is an industry wide question about the role of fixed income in 60, 40 balanced portfolios these days. And does it still play, you know, that downside protection role that it should in a diversified portfolio? I mean, because this is one of those questions that sits with a lot of practitioners every day on whether this will, you know, the next crisis. Will it, will it actually do what it's supposed to do?
Anne
Well, it comes down to valuations, of course, and which part of the fixed income market you've. You've decided to include in your portfolio. So I think that to your first part of the question, 60, 40, it's blurred.
Camilla
Yeah.
Anne
With the rise of what we call alternatives. And I put private assets inside that bucket, so they tend to have a lower correlation with traditional equity or fixed income. But there will be some correlation. So starting point valuations. So interest rates have gone up a lot. So if your starting point was where we were in 2020, no, fixed income was not a good diversifier for duration, what we call duration, because rates ultimately went up and the value of the assets went down. But where they are now a lot is priced in so they still they will outperform in what we call risk off markets. So there is a valid role for fixed income in a quite a traditional sense. The tool of duration. Yes. Tick in an environment where investors think that the equity market is fairly fully valued.
Camilla
I could sort of argue there because now.
Anne
Yeah, yeah, Credit. So that's another part of fixed income via you know, traditional bank debt, be it a corporate or be it in the private space like real estate. There's a whole spectrum that investors can invest in to provide themselves with a higher running yield than government bonds. So there's this big thing in the middle that's growing which I would call alternatives that's been taken from traditional listed equities and from traditional fixed income.
Camilla
And so what, what would you describe as what that alternative is? Like what is, how would you bucket that alternatives so that that bucket will.
Anne
Tend to include things like infrastructure, transmission lines eventually. Yeah, the metro, things like that.
Camilla
So what you're saying there is that that has a role that fixed income also used to do and so it then has changing the dynamics within a portfolio to also balance.
Anne
Yes, yeah, yes, exactly, exactly. And guess what you need to understand to value infrastructure. Interest rates.
Camilla
Exactly. Oh my gosh. It all comes back to fixed income markets.
Anne
No, it does. So having a foundational understanding gives you a great launching pad into the other asset classes. Yeah, and that's, you know, it's not sexy but gee, it's a really useful skill to have and ultimately it's a really transferable skill.
Camilla
Yeah, absolutely. So then, so how have you translated your career running money in fixed income to what you do today?
Anne
Good question. So before I finished up I knew that I needed to diversify myself and I wanted to because interest rates were at zero so there wasn't much happening. So I took on what we call multi asset. So this where you're investing across all asset classes. For many years I sat on asset allocation committees, etc. So I had built out that skill in a more visceral sense in a more, you know, under the bonnet sense of understanding the equity derivatives, etc. And this thing, this foundational skill that I have, finance slash, investment management slash, broad corporate experience slash stakeholder management.
Camilla
Yep.
Anne
Governance are all skills that have enabled me to launch into what I have now, which is a non executive portfolio of directorships and advisory roles.
Camilla
And do you love what you do now? I could imagine the variety and the, and the excitement and getting to see other people's businesses run and you Know, showing your skill set and impacting that, I mean, that'd be like, super exciting to me.
Anne
It's wonderful. I can't tell you how much I am actually enjoying it because having worked for organisations for many, many years, of course, diverse roles, but now I have many roles with lots of different organisations. So you're involved with different groups of people, organisations with different objectives. You're learning, you know, there's still very much a learning journey, which I think is an important point to bring out that the commitment to continuous learning is, Is so important that you go to conferences. I'm doing digital courses, I'm doing AI courses. Like, there's always things to know. So, yes, I'm loving my, My new career. It's. My executive career has given me so many options for this phase.
Camilla
Yeah, that's great. And I, I love that. And I've. I, you know, looking afar into what you're doing, I absolutely admire what you're doing because you're bringing, as you say that, that, that multi, I don't know, multi tool of what you have built in your executive career and applying that to your portfolio career today. So I'm excited for you and I'm excited to watch where you head next, because there's more to go, right?
Anne
Yes, yes, that's it. And I have more time to enjoy having worked so hard for a very long time, but I have time to do things just for me. That. Alongside that.
Camilla
I love that.
Anne
I could go to the gym at 11:00.
Camilla
Oh, my gosh, I wish I was there at 6am this morning doing my weight.
Anne
So exactly. Now I'm there at 11.
Camilla
Yeah, exactly. I asked this question to every one of my guests and everyone has a different answer, which I love. So I'm going to ask this of you as well. So. But I mean, you've given us a few little nuggets already today, but what's the most valuable piece of advice you've been given and why was it important? Was it because it was the timing of it? Was it the person who delivered it to you? Why was it important to you?
Anne
That's a hard one. Because it's. I mean, you get lots of advice on the side and sometimes it's not the advice that you get, but it's the experience that you have and what you do with it. And like my mum always said, number one, a good name is worth untold riches.
Camilla
Oh, totally.
Anne
Which in shorthand is your reputation. No matter what you do, no matter where you are, how you react, it's all there. And it's also the things that you do when people aren't watching. And I think that's, that's a principle that I think is really important. You know, that has sort of underpinned just I look at everything through that lens, actually.
Camilla
Yeah. And that piece of advice is what I hold number one as well. My reputation. And you know, protecting my reputation and building on my reputation is the most important asset that I have. So you've got to do as much as you can to make sure it's always seen in a good line.
Anne
Yes.
Camilla
Love your mum's advice. That's excellent. Excellent. So we're coming to the end of the episode, you know that we do this quick fire round where I ask you about 10 questions and you have to like, say what's first on your mind. So you ready? You ready for this? Yeah.
Anne
Yes.
Camilla
Look at that. Yes. Let's, let's go. Okay. Anne Anderson, how would your friends describe you?
Anne
I'd say loyal, generous.
Camilla
Yeah. One more smart. Yes. Love that. What's the most important money lesson you've learnt?
Anne
So, money lesson, I think it's around the humility of like, as an investor, the market's always making you be humble, but at the same, same time you've got to have this inner strength that when you've got conviction, you really have to back yourself. So those pivotal moments in my career, it was, I'm humble, but I've really got to be confident here and back myself. Like, that's gosh, that's risky.
Camilla
That is so risky though. Oh my gosh. Like, how do you even get your gut to like. Because your gut in those, those decisions is up in your throat where you're saying your gut's telling you don't do this, but you really got to do this. Like, it's really hard.
Anne
Yeah, but you see, you sort of learn to understand your gut.
Camilla
Yeah, I know.
Anne
I hope. Well, that's what I've learned. You sort of, you've got to have this self awareness and I think what's helped me a lot is be surrounded by people like, you have a regime that you develop that makes you more successful and having the right people around you as a sounding board. But then you've got to back your own judgement. So.
Camilla
Yeah, totally.
Anne
Do you know what I mean?
Camilla
Yeah, absolutely.
Anne
So it's, it's like a framework. So that's, that's the most important lesson I have learned in investing. And I still hold it.
Camilla
Good. Do you hold that personally on your investing too?
Anne
Yes, Good. Although as a professional investor, you don't spend a lot of time on your personal.
Camilla
No, it's true. Do you? Not at all. Not at all. Okay, next question. One piece of advice I'd tell my 20 year old self is, is go for it. Yeah.
Anne
Go for it. And believe in yourself. You've got the world at your feet and you have a long Runway ahead of you. So grab those opportunities.
Camilla
Yeah, I think that's great. What movie do you absolutely love but totally embarrassed to admit.
Anne
Oh, totally embarrassed. One of my favourites is To Kill a Mockingbird.
Camilla
Yeah.
Anne
The black and white version which is an old fashioned.
Camilla
The black and white version.
Anne
Yeah.
Camilla
Yeah. It's so good.
Anne
I think it was Perkins and the lessons in that. I know. Yeah. Atticus. Yep. In the barrel. And you know, you don't know who a man is until you walk in their shoes. That, that sort of adage to me is, it's. It transcends time.
Camilla
I agree. I don't think it's embarrassing to admit, but it's definitely something that, you know, I read that book as a. At school and it's. It still sits on in my. On my bookshelf and it's just one of those books you, you pull out every couple of years or so. I'm just gonna read it again cause Absolutely. I agree. I agree. So. Next question. On the weekend, I like to do what?
Anne
Oh, go for a walk with my girlfriend.
Camilla
Yeah.
Anne
Have a coffee.
Camilla
Love the gossip session.
Anne
Yeah.
Camilla
We solve.
Anne
It's the knowledge table, isn't it?
Camilla
Yeah. The world's problems.
Anne
There's always. Exactly workshopping. That's one thing that I love doing. Catching up with friends, just going to dinner sometimes just watching TV and catching up. Or nothing in particular.
Camilla
Yeah, it's nice to have some downtime too. Next question. If you had to invite anyone alive or dead to dinner, who would it be and why?
Anne
I would love to have dinner with Jimmy Diamond. He's the CEO of J.P. morgan.
Camilla
Yep.
Anne
I just find him. I did meet him many years ago when he came to Sydney, but I just find him to be such a forward leaning thinker. What he's done through all the crises.
Camilla
Totally.
Anne
He has the year of, you know, the most senior people in finance in the world and just the way he, he communicates something up. I just, I'd love to have a chat with him.
Camilla
Oh totally. He would be definitely in my top 10 of invites as well. Like I think you're right in that forward thinking piece. Like he will call stuff way in advance for when you think it's actually going to happen? Everyone's like, no, no, absolutely. Like, yeah. It's amazing. Just to pick his brain. Oh, my gosh. Love that. I'm just the geek in me. Like, comes out if I. Okay, next question. If I wasn't doing this job, I'd be a what?
Anne
I think interior decorator.
Camilla
Ooh, you've got a creative side.
Anne
Yeah, Creative. I love.
Camilla
Yeah.
Anne
Colours and doing things and shopping. Yeah.
Camilla
The judging up. So your house looks fabulous.
Anne
Yes, yes.
Camilla
All colour coordinated, all that sort of stuff. Love that, Love that. I love that. Okay, next question on my bucket list is.
Anne
Oh, to walk the Camino. I would. Maybe not the whole thing.
Camilla
It's some of it.
Anne
I'd love to do that. Yeah. It's a pilgrimage and the. I think the other things are to see the northern lights.
Camilla
Yes.
Anne
And I want to see the southern lights as well.
Camilla
They were great this year.
Anne
Discovered them.
Camilla
They're great this year. I mean, some of the photos that were coming out of Tasmania during winter were unbelievable, so.
Anne
Exactly.
Camilla
And I was talking to someone actually also this week who is going up to Lapland to go and see those northern lights over Christmas, which is super exciting.
Anne
Oh, there you go.
Camilla
So tell me. Tell me something that no one else knows about you.
Anne
Oh, boy, that's a really hard one. Because there's so many people in the world that know things.
Camilla
Well, do we need to take them out or we're just allowing them to know things and then just be silent.
Anne
I know things about me that somebody else might not know. I think I have to pass on that one.
Camilla
Oh, come on. No, you can't pass on that. It's like, you know, what, do you have, like a special skill or do you have a secret love of things that we need to know? What? What is it? Tell me.
Anne
Well, some people would know this, but I have a secret love of. Understand, like precious gems. Like all the colours. Yeah. Just how many. How nature produces.
Camilla
Yes.
Anne
These amazing colours from the earth. It just blows my mind what nature produces.
Camilla
So you're like an undercover. You're an undisclosed undercover, like geologist? Maybe, maybe.
Anne
I mean, I do think. Yeah. Because don't you think that the natural world, even though I spend a lot of time, obviously in this finance world, but the natural world can teach you so much.
Camilla
Oh, great.
Anne
And you know the Fibonacci numbers, you know all about that.
Camilla
Absolutely.
Anne
So that. That sort of natural side of me. Yeah, it's kind of hidden, but it's something that fascinates me and it's a thing of great beauty.
Camilla
Absolutely. And I was. I was actually listening to a podcast this week about the translation of some anthropologists of looking at what happens in the natural world in, you know, animals and insects and things like that, and how our emotions mimic it, essentially, and stuff that they do here. And what we do is interesting. It was just an interesting podcast anyway. That's just by the. By the by.
Anne
No, it is. Well, that's.
Camilla
And do you buy. So do you buy lots of gems?
Anne
Yeah, I do. Over many years. It's a gift I give myself.
Camilla
Yes, you. We all need to give ourselves gifts from time to time. For sure.
Anne
Yeah. It's rewards for all this hard work and it's something that brings great joy. So. Yep.
Camilla
Yeah. Okay, so we're up to the last question. So describe in three words why a career in finance, but particularly fixed interest is awesome.
Anne
It has given. Oh, that's not three words.
Camilla
No, it's not. But that's okay. Keep going.
Anne
It's like intellectual. It's challenging options.
Camilla
Yeah, great.
Anne
I think that options. It's given me so many options for what I'm doing now, what I've been able to do and will continue to enable me to do.
Camilla
I think that's a really great spot to end our podcast on, Anne. And thank you for being so authentic and funny and telling us about your stories and what you've learned through crisis and your mum's piece of advice and giving us a little snapshot into fixed income market. So I can't wait to continue on our interview series in this segment because I do think that there is. We need more females in this segment. Definitely. And I am very pleased that you were one of those trailblazers early on to show us all. And I guarantee the people that I interview, a lot of them in this series will point to you as one of those. The. The fixed income guru that everyone looked up to. So I'm really pleased, I'm really pleased that you were able to join us on Shares Not Shoes today.
Anne
My absolute pleasure. It's been wonderful chatting. Bye.
Camilla
You know the information that is in this podcast, we always talk about finance in this podcast, but it's not. Not financial advice. It's actually really careers advice. If you really want financial advice, I recommend that you speak to a financial planner or a broker and work out your own personal circumstances with that. But this is all about careers advice and how finance would be a fabulous career for.