This week, on episode 2 of the Shares Not Shoes podcast, we meet Elise McKay, Investment Analyst and Portfolio Manager at Pendal
Elise discusses her time working in Australia and the US and how, rather than setting long-term goals, she uses a strategy of breaking her goals into two-year increments instead.
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Elise
I guess even when you don't believe in yourself, you're lucky if you have others who do believe in you.
Camilla
Welcome, everyone, back to another episode of SharesNot Shoes, an Insider's Guide to careers in finance. I'm your host, Camilla Love, founder of F3, Future Females in Finance. Shares Our Shoes is a podcast whereby I interview some of my favourite people, all with one thing in common. They work in finance. We lift the lid on who they are, how they came into a career in finance, and arm you with some knowledge about why a career in finance could be a good fit for you. I will promise that all my guests will share some amazing personal stories, will be open and honest, and will inspire you. So let's go. Hi, everybody. It's Camilla Love, and welcome to SharesNot Shoes. Now, today's guest is a cracker and has been on my list from the very, very beginning, and I've been looking for any excuse to have her on. She is an analyst and portfolio manager at one of Australia's largest fund managers. She trained initially as an accountant at EY, and we won't hold that against her because most good analysts have been accountants. She's worked in Australia and the US. She's covered large caps, banks, EM, you name it.
Camilla
She's done it, and she's got an opinion in on it. Welcome to SharesNot Shoes, Elise McKay.
Elise
Hi, thank you so much for having me, Camilla.
Camilla
So glad. And as I said, you have been on my list for a long period of time, and I've just been looking for an excuse. So this season's deep dive into equities and equity analysts. You were top, top, I think, on who I asked to come out. So I've given Give me a bit of an introduction, but it's better coming from the horse's mouth. So can you introduce yourself and tell me a little bit about what you do and who you are?
Elise
Yes, absolutely. So as you mentioned, I trained as an accountant up in Queensland, and I did that for four years before I subsequently made the move down to Melbourne to join J. P. Morgan. But I'll pause there. I'll just take a quick step back. I mean, I was born and raised in Hong Kong. I moved to Australia when I was 10, moved to the sunny Gold Coast, where I went to school, subsequently moved up to Brisbane for university, where I did commerce economics. And I guess a theme that has gone through my career today, and all my life today, is moving around a lot. So I'm going to walk you through. I think I lived in eight cities across my 38 years so So I'll take you through that. But yeah, I consider myself really lucky. I graduated from university. I didn't have any sense of really of what I wanted to do. I was pretty young, I guess, 21. I hadn't really thought a whole lot about it, bizarrely. And I wasn't even going to apply for any of the big four accounting firms because I had a part time job at a small accounting firm.
Elise
And when I got that job in my last year at university, the head of H. R. Said to me, she was scary, really scary.
Camilla
She said to me, you can have this job, but don't you dare think about leaving.
Elise
I'm expecting you to stay as a grad. And so being, I guess, new to the workforce. And not very confident. And also I'm a real people pleaser. So I didn't want to disappoint anyone. So it didn't even cross my mind that I should be looking further afield. And then the final day of the big four accounting firms, The final day before they closed their applications, my boss at the time, Bruce Galsimino from Brisbane, who I'm still in touch with today, called me into his office and he said, so, Elise, what accounting firms have you applied for? And I said, none. I've got to stay here. And he's like, Elise, you are kidding yourself. You're wasting your efforts if you stay here. You can do more. And so I went home that night and I applied to a couple of the accounting firms with whatever time I could. So they probably weren't the best applications.
Camilla
Two seconds to midnight.
Elise
But luckily, I got a role with Ernst & Young in their corporate tax division. And so that, for me, was a bit of a lesson where, I guess, even when you don't believe in yourself, you're lucky if you have others who do believe in you. And so it really, I guess that was my first experience having someone look out for me or a mentor in the industry without even having that label applied.
Camilla
Great. You're still in touch. Yeah. Obviously, he still does that role for you, too, right?
Elise
Yeah, I It's been a little while since I've spoken to him, but I'm pretty sure I could send him a text or give him a call at any time and we could just go back to the relationship we had. Interestingly, I think his son is now in the markets in Sydney.
Camilla
Good.
Elise
Good, good. Australia is a small world, but I love that.
Camilla
So how did you get out of Australia?
Elise
Okay, so I started in accounting, didn't know what I wanted to do, but I doing my CA would be a good start. So I started down that path. And then my career just really evolved. I don't think it necessarily had a... There wasn't a long term goal I was really striving for. Instead, I broke it down. I thought about it in two year increments. And when I got into corporate tax, I loved the work. I loved the people. And I got involved in doing transaction structuring, tax advice. And so as I got exposed to that, I was like, oh, the transaction stuff's really interesting. I really enjoy this finance angle. And so then I went from that to the corporate finance team. And then I was working in the corporate finance team and I was working on deals, doing due diligence and all sorts of valuations and different things, and then worked with a bunch of bankers. And I saw what the bankers were doing. I was like, I can do that and I could probably do that better. So then I started looking at banking roles. And I remember a very formative experience. I spoke to this recruiter early on and I gave him a call and I said, Oh, look, I think I want to do banking, but I don't really know.
Elise
I don't think I've got the skills, but I know I could do the job. And he said, okay, well, it's nice to meet you, but I don't think I can help you. Why? Well, I reflected on it. First of all, I was a bit put out, but then I reflected on it and I thought, firstly, I have not put my best foot forward. I have gone into this meeting underprepared. I don't know what I want. I don't have a plan for how I get there. And at the end of the day, the recruiter is effectively your first interview. You have to get through a meeting with a recruiter to then get your next, to get a job interview with a bank in this situation. So I took that learning on board. And then it's been that learning which is I've applied to every other job I've subsequently gone for. So six months later, I went back to a different recruiter. I'd gone and I worked on the skills where I had gaps. I'd worked to understand, well, what do I really want for my future, my career? And I presented myself much better. And I ultimately, not long after I had that meeting, I got a role with J.
Elise
P. Morgan in Melbourne doing diversified industrials investment banking. So that took me to Melbourne. I did that for a few years and was approached to go and work for them in New York. And that's how I made the move offshore. I did work for them in New York for a couple of years.
Camilla
And how was that? Hard. Surely that's a big eye opener, right? Big city coming from the Goldie, right?
Elise
Huge. Yeah, it was an amazing experience in many ways, but it was also, from a work perspective, one of the hardest things I've done. New York is a A fun city to live in, so I was definitely burning the candles at both ends when I had the time. But I think for me, there was an experience where pretty early on in my time in New York, I did And that culture of working really hard is absolutely ingrained, or it was at the time that I worked at J. P. Morgan in New York. And I think I did three months straight of 100 plus hours a week. And when you're doing those sorts of hours, there's literally no time for anything else. Anything else. And I was doing deals in Europe, so I was going back and forth to Europe as well at the same time. So my body clock was a bit put out.
Camilla
All over the shop.
Elise
All over the shop. My parents came to visit for a week and I barely had time to see them. Oh, no. And I think it just I realised that the work was interesting, but I probably come to a point where I knew I didn't want that to be my life long term. And I got to a point where I wasn't learning a huge amount more and the hours were just unsustainable. So as soon as I could, I made the move to a Emerging Markets Fund based down in DC, which was fantastic. Fantastic. Fantastic from a career perspective, but again, probably not the greatest move from my personal perspective, as I didn't know it sold in DC.
Camilla
Yeah, I mean, DC is bigger than the Gold Coast, but I mean, Definitely the loneliness being half a world away from family and friends can be really challenging.
Elise
Yeah, absolutely. Whilst it was great from a career perspective, it was definitely pretty lonely. I think if I could characterise my... This was the final stage of me putting my work or my career ahead of pretty much everything else in my life, which characterised my 20s. But then if I roll forward into my 30s, which I'm now coming towards the end of, my 30s have much more been around how do I have the career that I love And I'm super passionate about whilst also recognising I'm not my career. There's so much more to me than that. And how do I make sure that I have a much more well-rounded life. But DC was that final stage for me, where I moved there when I was 30, worked pretty hard for a couple of years, got amazing experience. I mean, I was doing... It was an emerging market, very active fund manager, so I shy away from using the term activist. I much prefer the word constructivist because that was very much... We were very much constructively working behind the scenes.
Camilla
Sometimes I call it friendly activist. I think that that's a bit of a juxtaposition, though.
Elise
Yeah, I definitely prefer the word constructivism, because at the At the end of the day, that's definitely more aligned with my style and my philosophy, that working constructively with someone you're much better able to generate the outcomes that you want or that a most effective for all parties, versus being very public and agitating it, and agitating for it, which I think in some cases can be quite ego-driven. But yeah, my experience in DC from a work sense was incredible. It was a 20 stock, high conviction portfolio. Every stock we had to have an engagement strategy at some point. It was corporate governance, ESG focused. And I was lucky that I got to invest in businesses all around the world. So I spent a lot of time investing in a railroad down in Brazil, which was really interesting. I think about 40 % of our funds or our portfolio was deployed in India. So I spent quite a bit of time looking at India and I spent time there as well. Indonesia. And those were the key markets that I spent most of my time looking at.
Camilla
So upon reflection of that time and standing in your current shoes today, how has that made you a better analyst? Because you're not at a constructivist organisation today, but surely you've taken away some attributes of that to make you a better analyst.
Elise
Absolutely. So I think It comes down to there's a few different things. So firstly, whilst we are not a constructivist fund, we do absolutely work behind closed doors with the companies that we're invested in to constructively share our views and help them to maybe see things that we see in a very clear and constructive way. So that is something that I continue to do. It might not be with every stock, but it's certainly with a number of stocks in the portfolio. Secondly, I think the ability to look across different markets. So every market in EM is Brazil is a very different market to India, is a very different market to China in the way that people do business, the way that corporate governance works, the way that companies, the disclosures work, the way that the regulatory authorities work. And so I feel like it just helps me to think outside the box. And having had that experience working across so many different regions, regions, I think that has just given me a completely different and perhaps more global perspective, which I can apply to my work today. But what is similar is the investment philosophy.
Elise
And so what has attracted me to different funds has been looking for funds who invest the same way that I like to invest. And that alignment on philosophy, I think, is incredibly important. Moving to Pendle, that is certainly there in the case.
Camilla
I agree. We do talk a lot about alignment of values across a number of our podcasts. I think that's another one of those. And you mentioned this is the industry that you love. Why do you love it?
Elise
Why do I love it? I've always loved businesses and companies. So if I go back to... I said at the start that I didn't know what I wanted to do when I finished university, but I've ended up doing what I know now I always wanted to do. Because if you wind back to when I was at high school or even junior school, I always found business is really interesting. Actually, my mum, yesterday, and my sister was visiting my mum, and they found my list to Santa from when I was 10 years old, 1995, I think. I asked Santa for a desk. I think that- Oh, my gosh. That desire to understand and learn and study companies is something that I've I've always loved. I used to buy the BRW 200 Richest 200 list when I was in year 8 and year nine. And I would pour over it to understand what these different entrepreneurs were doing and what their businesses were. And I, like other people would buy Clio or Dolly. I had a subscription to BRW. Oh my God.
Camilla
I'm I'm not going to judge you for that for a year nine antenna, right? Seriously? Yeah.
Elise
Oh, my gosh. Anyway, it was interesting because I always wanted to be a vet, but I think that's because that's what I wanted to be since I was a child, because it's a job that you can easily identify.
Camilla
Yeah, I agree.
Elise
And then right up until year 12, I think that was my first preference up until very late on. And then one day my uncle's partner said to me, Elise, why do you want to be a vet? You've got such an interest in business. Maybe you should do that instead. And I went, that's interesting. And so then I changed my university preferences. So whilst vet was still my first preference, my second preference was then it wasn't science, it was then comment Aren't you glad for a bit of intervention? Absolutely. Alastair, my uncle's partner, or now husband, has been such a wonderful sounding board for me, even though we've never worked in the same field, but he just has a really nice way of viewing the world. He's also a very good and effective communicator. He might prod the questions that other people, that maybe my parents wouldn't ask because I have a very different, very loving, very different relationship with them.
Camilla
Now, can I ask a question? Yes. I'm always intrigued, right? Because surely you fall in love with companies. Oh, that's hard. That you invest in. I don't understand. You know the business proposition, you know why it's good, you know the management, you know how it all works. But then, I don't know, you get to a point where either share price is down or the share price valuation hits your top tier. How do you separate- How do you then separate? How do you separate that emotional piece with the actual really quantitative piece?
Elise
Well, it's interesting because it is something that we, in the industry, do talk about, don't fall in love with your companies.
Camilla
It's so hard not to, surely.
Elise
It is so hard not to. I actually think every analyst that I know or I've worked with has one company that they are in love with, where they have blind spots. I know that I have a company like that, where I have the blind spots, but I'm also aware that when it comes to this company, company, I do have blind spots. And so it's that awareness, where if other people in your team also know that that's a bit of a blind spot for you, then they might prod harder and push you harder on when we're around the table every morning, doing our morning meeting and talking about that company. Because like it or not, there's some stocks or some companies, where you just have this great feel for it and you can just trade it. It's like a gut instinct and you go, Okay, I know this stock will do this, the market will react like this, and therefore you can call it really well. There might be other companies where you know that the long term trajectory, you've got such high conviction in the long-term, it's hard to then pull back and go, okay, short term, this is how the market might react.
Elise
And so the journey, you might know that from day one, in year one to year 10, this company is going to be significantly larger. But it's that journey on that, to get there, which can be extremely volatile. So, yes, it's an interesting question. I think it happens. And so then is the question, well, how do you avoid it happening? Or do you go, Yeah, actually, it's human nature. I know it will happen. How to then put the guard posts in place to make sure, the guard rails in place, to make sure that other people are also aware of it and we manage it accordingly?
Camilla
Yeah, that's good. Telling people that you know that you've got those biases, I think it's really good.
Elise
Yeah, absolutely. Because we all have bias that is, I think, unavoidable. To have biases in different things. It's that self-awareness to then go, Okay, I know that these are my blind spots, and this is where How I can try and risk-mitigate them.
Camilla
Got another question on the hottest area of the market right now, which is AI. Yes. What's your thoughts on, firstly, the companies that you invest in and how they are using AI, but also AI itself as a theme that's going through the market? It is the hottest thing, right? But surely valuations are stretched and it's overblown. What's your views?
Elise
Okay, I've got a lot of views, as always.
Camilla
Good.
Elise
Yes. But I will start from my big picture view. So if I think big picture and characterise the prior decade that we were in as a period of fiscal policy, and so the markets, sorry, monetary policy. So the markets were very dependent on, very driven by interest rates, what the Fed was doing, what a bank was doing. This is where now in a different decade, and this decade is one which is fiscally driven. So it's around investment. And so we've seen fiscal decisions and investment decisions, I guess a decade of CapEx and changing the way the market is reacting and how we need to think about portfolio, constructional, stock picking. And so if you think about it from an investment perspective, we have the green energy transition. And so you've got government policy like the IRA, Inflation Reduction Act over in the US, for example. Then we also have the geopolitical environment and government's increasing investment in defence, that deglobe and deglobalization, which goes in hand with that. So you've got companies looking to move supply chains back on shore. So the US, you've got the Chips Act, for example. So building semiconductor facilities in the US.
Elise
And then the third thing is the generative AI way. And so the CapEx numbers that need to go in to build out generative AI is just huge. So then if we're in this era of CapEx, how do we then think about the markets? So that's my first perspective. Then if we go into generative AI specifically, and what's my view on generative AI? So I think generative AI is going to be a game changer. So a bit of a revolution. It's like the Internet. It's one way to think about it, except we're probably rolling out generative AI can be rolled out quicker than the Internet was rolled out. And so then it touches so many aspects of what we do. So there is the impact on our economy from a productivity point of view. So what does generative AI unlock maybe more of the labour force to go into other areas or to do more productive work? Do we see productivity growth for the first time in a long time in our labour force? Sure. Then secondly, you have the wealth effect of this NVIDIA and those companies linked to Gen AI flowing through the economy.
Elise
Because of all the wealth that generative AI is creating, I think this period, most recent quarter, was one of the Most meaningful for... In the US, I think the number of retirement fund millionaires increased something like 35 %. And so that has a wealth effect where people go spend money. And so you have that bifurcation of the consumer in the US market. So the difference between those who have shares and those wealthier demographics, versus the people who are most under pressure and perhaps don't have access to shares. And then, I guess, thirdly, then you've got how are companies then at a corporate level adapting to this this tremendous change. And it's interesting. I was having a look this morning at Microsoft and then also some of the IT services companies. So if I think about how corporates are adjusting. So you've got, firstly, the revenue opportunity from companies being able to sell generative AI solutions to their customers, which will take time to flow through. And in the meantime, you've got the expense impact from having to invest in generative AI ahead of expectations. So looking at the Goldman Sachs forecasts this morning, they're forecasting that this year, Microsoft is spending $25 billion plus US on CapEx for Gen AI just this year.
Camilla
Alone. Not anything else.
Elise
Not anything else. No other company. And the revenue, and they're the leaders on the revenue But their revenue, they're probably going to generate from associated services is probably in the order of three and a half billion. So they're not yet generating return on all of that investment. So you've got a period where there's a lot of cost that's going into or investment that's going into generative AI without necessarily yet delivering the results from it. And so it's interesting because then how does that flow through? How I'm thinking about investing. So on the software side, particularly enterprise software, there's a little bit of pressure where their customers have gone, hold on, I'm going to spend money on I. T. But first of all, I need to work out. I need to solve this generative AI issue first. So rather than going out and doing a new ERP system or a new HR system or whatever. Firstly, I'm going to go and make sure I have my cloud transition intact so that I'm prepared to adopt generative AI. And so software is having a little bit of a pause whilst that transition to the cloud, which has been ongoing for many years, if anything, is probably accelerating.
Elise
And so when I think about how does this impact investment decision So we have very much focused in our portfolios on the infrastructure side. So the infrastructure players most exposed to that build at data centres. And so this is something I did a trip to the US in September last year. We were already positive on data centres and the cloud story. And I came back from that trip to the US, very positive on generative AI and what it meant for deployment of data centres. And so if you put it, to put it into perspective, I've seen numbers that generative AI is anything from a three to a 10 times impact on the size of the industry.
Camilla
So then how's it going to affect your job?
Elise
Well, I think it is any job which requires creativity and thinking, I think will still be required. But I think about it as being able to do more. So internet didn't disrupt my job, for example, but the ability to do emails made it so much easier. And so then I've been thinking about, well, what tools can I use to make my life easier? And so I've I've got a bunch of ideas, and then I have slowly been thinking about, well, what can I be doing and how can I do this better or what tools could I potentially use? So that's very much an ongoing journey, and I'm pretty early in the stages of that.
Camilla
Well, I'll give you a quick heads up. We're interviewing Emina Rosenberg and her new fund. Yes. Fully integrated with AI tools. I've seen that in live, and that's pretty amazing.
Elise
I have seen, I think, a couple of posts maybe on LinkedIn with them talking about what they're doing, and it's pretty cool. So I think- I got them to pull up a stock that they didn't have a research report on, and that research report was written in 20 seconds.
Camilla
Yeah, amazing. It was pretty amazing.
Elise
I think the difference is, so if you need a summary of information that's currently available, I mean, it's an amazing tool for it. But a big part of my job is going out and having, is fact finding and having conversations. So like Xero, I might go out and speak to 20 different accountants a year and say, What do you like about Xero? What don't you like? What product have they released that's working well for you? What's What's not working well for you? What are your thoughts on pricing? This is not so easily captured.
Camilla
No. But what it will do is give you more opportunity to do a better job at that aspect of your job.
Elise
Well, yeah, it will unlock more time that I can spend on doing that. That's my hope anyway.
Camilla
It might unlock some more time, which is my next question about who are you outside of work? I know that you mentioned You mentioned finding more extension of yourself outside of work. Tell me a little bit about who is Elise outside of 9:00 to 5:00.
Elise
I think what I said is that my 20s were characterised by being solely focused on my career. And then my 30 so far have been much more about Elise, the person who one aspect is a very passionate career woman. And so I guess this has been an ongoing journey for me. And if I think about who I am today, I am, yes, I am a passionate fund manager, but I am also a partner, a daughter, a friend, a sister. So all of those relationships, family, friendships, personal relationships are incredibly important to me. I also have a lot of passions outside of family and my career. So I'm a very active community member. I joined a few years ago, and I think this is something we have in common. I joined my local surf club at North Bonda, which I absolutely love.
Camilla
I love- So fun.
Elise
It's so much fun, but it's also I love being a part of a community that is centred around saving lives. And that education piece on safety at the beach.
Camilla
And it's outdoors, it's healthy. To me, it ticks a whole bunch of boxes, and that community piece is just one of them.
Elise
Absolutely. And it's equal. I mean, everyone's equal on the beach. You have all sorts of people from all sorts of walks of life. But we all have a common purpose and a common goal down on the beach, which is saving lives. And then the other aspect of that, which I absolutely adore, is the masters competitor community. And so I'm lucky at North Bondi, there's an opportunity to train pretty much every day with an amazing group of masters competitors. And masters starts at 30 and it goes...
Camilla
We're all not that old, though.
Elise
It goes well into your 80s. So I think at the most recent carnival, we had competitors spanning every range from early '30s to '80s. It's amazing being a part of a team like that.
Camilla
But you know what? No matter how often I practise the board, I still can't love it. I still can't love it.
Elise
I I actually I do really enjoy it. I'm also really bad at it, which is great because it means I can improve.
Camilla
I prefer the surfski. That's my thing.
Elise
I also love the surfski. And what's been really fun about it is I've always been a swimmer, but since joining the surf club, I've learnt new skills, not only in terms of the saving lives piece as a lifesaver, but also learning new skills, how to paddle a board, how to paddle a surf ski, how to read the surf, how to judge different conditions. And I love that aspect of it. And I also think there's a lot of lessons in life that come from it. So for example, if I think about risk management and then also confidence, like going down to there's a period where I was swimming pretty much or almost every day at the beach. And every day the conditions are different. And every day I would go in and I might go under the first wave and I'd have that little, or I'd face that first wave if it was a bigger day and I'd have a little freak out. And I go, oh, no, I don't know if I can do this. But go under the wave and I go, Oh, okay, I can do that. Okay, let's just go under another wave.
Elise
And all of a sudden, you're out the back and you've made it through a heavy break. And you go, Okay, I can do difficult things. I can read the conditions. I can adjust. I can manage the risk. I think that was just at that point in my life was a really good daily reminder that I was tough and I had those tools in my mental toolkit to pull out when I need them.
Camilla
I'm going to ask a question I ask everybody, and everyone has a different view, but I It's a different answer, which I'd love. Tell me, what's the most valuable piece of advice you've been given and why it was important? It might have been a timing thing or it might have been, I don't know. Why?
Elise
I don't know if it's... A piece of advice doesn't necessarily come to mind. I guess there was something that happened in my personal life, which crystallised the big change for me. And so I can narrow it down to this moment, where I'd gone through a very tough period in my personal life a few years ago. But at the same time, my performance Because at work had been really good. I sat down with my boss that year to talk about my bonus, and he paid me a number, which I always thought, once I've hit that number, I know I've made it. I always thought, once I hit that number, I'll be so happy. Then I'm sitting in this meeting and I'm trying not to cry because I'm so unhappy, and then I can't understand why being paid this number. You should be happy. Meeting this goal I'd set myself, I should be happy. And so I then went on a journey to understand why. And what I learned was that the difference between intrinsic and extrinsic motivators. And so for me, what really drives me and what really motivates me is my ability to do my best work and feel like I'm doing quality work as the and knowing that I'm doing it for myself versus money or daily performance.
Elise
Doing it for others. And doing it for others. Because the other thing I don't think is sustainable, when stocks go down or when something goes wrong for me, I feel it deeply and it's painful.
Camilla
It's hard.
Elise
It is hard. But also I do not want my mood every day to be driven by if the fun's up or if the fun's down. I don't I want it to be driven by knowing that even if something one day doesn't go my way, I know that I was on top of things and I did my best work. Where I will hold myself over the calls and be really upset is if I know actually I missed that and I should have been on top of it, and I missed it because I wasn't doing my best work. Yeah.
Camilla
So the moral of the story is always do your best work.
Elise
For me, For me, that is what drives me. For other people, it might be something else that drives you. But working out what it is and then making sure that you do things that are aligned with, I guess, that personal motivators or those purpose That personal purpose.
Camilla
Yeah. It's a great lesson, and we're coming to the end. But before we come to the end, we do this quick fire round. Okay. Where I ask you something, and you need to tell me exactly the first thing that comes into your head. Okay. Okay? Yeah. You're ready for this?
Elise
I think so.
Camilla
I don't bite. It'll be fine. Okay. How would your friends describe you?
Elise
My friends would describe me as outgoing, kind, and a bit adventurous.
Camilla
A bit adventurous? Not just adventurous? Just a little bit adventurous.
Elise
A bit adventurous.
Camilla
Good. What's the most important money lesson you've learned?
Elise
The importance of investing from an early stage.
Camilla
That's a good one. My hidden talent is Well, I love cooking, and I'm pretty good in the kitchen once I've got a recipe to follow, so I would say that. Great. I'm going to invite myself around.
Elise
I also have an amazing wine collection. So we will do that and open a bottle of wine.
Camilla
That's a hidden talent or an outcome to go with your hidden talent?
Elise
I think it's a nice incentive to cook a nice meal because then you get to open a nice bottle of wine to go with it.
Camilla
Totally. No incentive needed, though. On my bucket list is?
Elise
One day, I would love to cycle from Egypt to Cape Town.
Camilla
Oh, wow. That's a long It is.
Elise
There's a tour. I think it's Tour de Afrique is the group that does it. I stumbled across it, I don't know, 15 or 20, maybe years ago, early on on in my career where I was a bit bored and I thought, Oh, this is before I moved to banking.
Camilla
I thought, What can I do for three months? I'm just going to ride from the top of Africa to the bottom.
Elise
Yeah, and I think it's three or four months. They break it into two weeks' stages. I've just always thought since then, Gosh, I'd love to do something like that. But the reality is that's probably a retirement.
Camilla
Training involved. Oh, my God. What is your favourite book or podcast?
Elise
I'm a very avid reader, but I'm going to say I'm really into podcasts at the moment. I love The Imperfects because I do I love how they talk about mental health in such an open and honest way.
Camilla
I love that. I'll have to go and have a look it up. Yeah, great. What movie do you absolutely love, or are totally embarrassed to admit.
Elise
I had a lose a guy in 10 days. Or anything Harry Potter.
Camilla
Harry Potter is not embarrassing, surely.
Elise
Well, it may It depends on how many times you've seen it.
Camilla
I know a number of people who've probably seen it in the hundreds of times. I think you might be one of them. If you had to invite anyone alive or dead to dinner, who would it be and why?
Elise
Winston Churchill. I love reading. I've read many books about him. My biographies and autobiographies are my favourite genre. I would love to understand more about his history. But also, he worked so hard at building the skills early on in his life, which then he then became so well known for being- For being erradian. Yeah, erration. Yeah, erration. He He studied that and studied military history and things like that. I would love to understand more about his mind works. He had many challenges that were thrown at him through life. I'd love to understand how he navigated them.
Camilla
Is that your first question at dinner to him?
Elise
I'd probably start with something a bit softer.
Camilla
Hi, how are you going?
Elise
And open a bottle of champagne because I think you love champagne.
Camilla
Yeah, exactly. If I wasn't doing this job, I'd be a...
Elise
Probably a vet. Although I feel like that's an old Elise. That was the childhood Elise. I think today, what would I be doing? Gosh, I'm in medicine. I have a fascination with how the human body works, which has developed as I've gotten older. I think I would have loved to have learned more about that.
Camilla
I'm deep into Peter Atteer at the moment. Oh, yeah. His podcast and his books. I agree similarly in that it's all about having quality of life, not quantity.
Elise
Yeah. Although having both would be great.
Camilla
Yes, totally agree. Tell me something no one knows about you.
Elise
I'm actually very open book, so that's hard.
Camilla
No, surely.
Elise
Something.
Camilla
I know, although it's something that I know, but the listeners might know, it's your birthday coming up. Do you know what? Same with me.
Elise
Do we share the same birthday?
Camilla
Not sharing, no. But within the same week.
Elise
Okay. Well, yes. So it's my 39th birthday coming up. I share a birthday with my uncle, who I'm very close to. And my uncle and I have If anything, grown closer through recent years as he's been there for me in some tough personal times. And so whilst we've celebrated birthdays together at different points in the past, he's now overseas for 12 months and enjoying his retirement. And I'm going up to Port Stephens with my partner.
Camilla
That's great. Yes. That'll be fun. Yes. Well, happy birthday.
Elise
Happy birthday to you, too.
Camilla
Yeah, it's fun. If I was a superhero, who would you be?
Elise
Well, I think the go-to would be Wonder Woman. But then can I be a male superhero?
Camilla
Totally. We are. No problems with that.
Elise
Okay. I think I would be maybe Batman. Batman?
Camilla
Yeah. Why Batman?
Elise
Well, probably because I used to watch a cartoon. Growing up in Hong Kong, the choices on TV were pretty limited.
Camilla
Like, Kong, Power, that bit.
Elise
That was on every night, and I loved Batman. Batman and Robin.
Camilla
It is fun.
Elise
They get to go down to the Bat Cave and completely transformed. They have the alter egos. It's a fun lifestyle, I think.
Camilla
Yeah, I agree. Okay, last one. Describe in three words why a career in finance is awesome.
Elise
Flexibility. There is a bill. So I mean, the market hours are pretty good from a female perspective. Markets open 10:00 till 4:00. So that gives you a bit more flexibility versus coming from banking when you just can never, or anything which is really client service facing, you don't have control over your own diary. So that's one aspect. The second aspect is power. I wouldn't say that I a power hungry person, but when you are allocating capital, there is a sense of responsibility that comes with ensuring that that is done well. So that's where I think about having greater diversity across those capital allocating making decisions is really important. And finally, you get to meet the most interesting people and have the most interesting conversations across so many different topics. I just love that. For someone who is curious about how the world works, a career in funds management couldn't be more suited to you.
Camilla
That is my favourite aspect That the intellect and the curiosity and everyone from different segments of the market and different segments of life and understanding value chains, that everything. I just love that.
Elise
Yeah, no, me too. Absolutely. The end, can I add a four?
Camilla
The amazing people you get to meet. Yes, extra bonus. Oh, yes. Oh, thanks, love. Yeah, no, I agree. I've made some of my best friends in the industry, and I just love to be surrounded by interesting people, and you're amongst that crew. I love it. I love it like you. But thank you, Elise. Thank you for being so powerfully authentic today. Thank you for telling us about your journey. I love the roles of your uncles and certain people in your career when they've gone, they've asked the right questions. Why do you want to be a vet that is? I love your journey offshore. I love that your your epiphany in your late 20s, early 30s, and the ability to find yourself. It's a really tough thing to do, that self-reflection, and knowing who you are at the end of it is such a reward. So I'm really glad that you've been able to share that with us today. Thank you. It's been great to have you on, and I hope to have you on again soon.
Elise
No, thank you very much for having me. And I think it just goes to show the power of asking great great questions, which you've done. I think being able to ask great questions is a skill. Like you say, it can catalyse certain change and direction of people's lives or careers or decisions. So thank you.
Camilla
The information that is in this podcast, we always talk about finance in this podcast, but it's not financial advice. It's actually really careers advice. Really want financial advice, I recommend that you speak to a financial planner or a broker and work out your own personal circumstances with that. But this is all about careers advice and how finance will be a fabulous career for you.